[rant] Snake_Eyes Game Chef 2012
Snake_Eyes:
jackson_tengu,
Thank you very much for the comments, any and all really help a lot towards my completion of the game. I am quite baffled by a few of the things, so I hope that by concentrating on making a game that is at least easy to review and complete in a sense of having all the right parts to the game, such as a beginning some actual motivations and an end which has some input into what gets achieved.
I wonder about how much I should write about the elements I am using, but the contraband is 100 frozen people in stasis and the four people have separate agendas, apart from personal safety (one of the players does not win by saving themselves). So that there is a number of reveals, each one culminating to a final objective.
There might be a bit of writing, but I will make a checklist, so that it is easier for the people that like talking and rolling bones. So that the epilogue is a timeline of unique events.
There is a game about 3 people hunting a hell-horse, and it has the DM a specific role. Was thinking that might be harder than having a 5th player as DM that reads the adventure? Idk.
Regarding NSW and later discussions,
Well I did not play or roll dice, I sat down for a while with one of the young black guys (there were a few) and the girl with all the books, and I helped the guy that was used to playing, make an adventure he and the girl wrote it basically.
They had a few elements already, but drew on V:tM Australia (Idk the book name) and it was very bad lots of dice and such things. Traditional WW categorization.
The guy was very good at story telling a natural dramatic actor and engaging personality. We basically described the culture into V:tM terms certain legends overwrote the traditional names, werewolves could change into birds, dingos, snakes, rocks that kind of thing, and the spirits were wraiths and changelings. I cant remember very well but it started of with establishing mechanisms and a lexicon. They did some flashback scenes, and the vampires represented colonial conquestadors. Mages were initiated by vampires, werewolves and such and made up a lot of the normal people. Hunters were usually sided on the indigenous side.
The elders as I said were not happy with a lot of what I discussed, and I know that they had talks with the guys who were all say 16-23, and the DM was a bit upset for a while.
The main problem is that when you make money from Indigenous Australian customs #1 It has to be motivated by love and respect. And be based on the tenet of justice through healing. #2 Financial agreements must be equal, and followed through.
So the most agreed on definition would be that there would be no problem with a white teacher helping primary school 6+yo write a game about the "Australian Aboriginal Creation Myth of the Rainbow Serpent" is it was to promote learning of culture and adhered to traditional story and myth 100%
Myth does not have a western meaning btw it just means "story that sticks 100% to the agreed terminology as judged by the single most senior member of the nation/ spiritual area" This is tricky because Ill use a friend in this example Kevin Buzzacot, it the spiritual embodiment of Lake Eyre SA (hes a rad dude btw check him out, hes always on TV, check out SBS Message Stick if you are interested) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Buzzacott, but he cant speak regarding women's business being a man, and has to defer to people like his sister or cousins, and is "outranked" in a few areas. Though he can say what is or is not women's business if you understand.
So a game that had the Rainbow Serpent myth could be a Snakes and Ladders game; a Candy Land Game; that kind of thing. With or without game pieces that have additional words. This because it is not-for-profit, not copy-write and also made by black kids, with no interpretation by the white teacher, only instructions on what game pieces might be used etc.. would be fine.
White Wolf World Book with Indigenous legends and myths (equating to modern and dream-time respectively) poorly represented with no financial agreement by strict traditional code is in a lot of trouble, because they have profited from lies regarding black culture. Remember all the spiritual leader in my country had suffered the most horrific ritual abuse from the Catholic church, stolen children, beatings, financial abuse, rape (I would put at least 90% repeatedly sexually abused though I will not quote any figures but I can say honestly this is a very low estimation), there are a lot of suicides and repercussions such as this.
This (the book) is regarded as Satanism, and I agree 100% in this regard. Not saying anyone playing this has bad intentions, or the writers thought they would offend anyone. Tbh I had to show a lot of people where there were clear violations of both traditional lore and law.
So I know that by using the American myths as outlined above is a clear violation of custom (met some Native America spiritual leaders as well) for both my own country and American. But I will change the final product, this is just me sort of staking my (non-exclusive) claim for my game. Just trying to get my intentions out there as I am running late for the contest. Though I am 99% sure I will have an entry.
Okay, so how do I appease traditional lore?
First the link above, another entry with similar motif, is written by an authority and teacher of American tradition, he is not going to step on any toes, and can personally show his friends who I am sure would think it is really cool.
This does not help me, I am Euro-Australian, and not in the same position as an employed teacher.
By citing references I can clear up any misconceptions easily, because the reader can take an official persons word on the wording and subject matter.
By clearly stating it is a word of fiction, and again pointing readers to a traditional bibliography.
Second, not trying to use it in a bad way, and being open to criticisms from any representation of another culture.
Third, money made without entering a financial agreement can be very tricky, best advice if you dont know and have to guess, dont try and cheat someone from money, and dont be greedy.
Forth, not be subversive. And not to make personal assertions, in this case on American culture. And not state that it is something other than it is.
Means that like the above poster wrote concern about I should omit "sexual predator" and change it to something less offensive (I feel dumb about that slipping though my moral radar, but it was stream of consciousness, and late at night. I was drawn to the NA story of the Cactus Lover. Though I should just base it on another shape-changer.
Also means that I probably need to finish the game by the 13th to review it of elements that I overlooked.
Jackon, I will be happy to go into some greater detail with specific events, though I might have mis-communicated, I did not sit down with the entire troupe, I help facilitate an opportunity for one of the players to write a game on shared narrative. They had experience playing (they played every night at the reservation), it was a part of a long standing series of conversations with Kevin Buzzacot and some other elders about making games regarding themes such as the Dream-Time Uranium Myths, and publishing books for WW and similar. The end result I will sort of say is this, make the game with respect, and probably stay away from anything that works for a company. Like the Europeans (is it Norway?) that can get a cultural grant to write RPGs is the best way to do it. Or keeping it to a simple board game is fine (though under financial agreement has different rules).
It also matters weather you are white or black, and what job and position in society you have.
But simply get the government to pay, and spread a good word celebrating culture, especially the cultures that have living traditions. Something like a dead folk hero is fine, but just dont bullshit and try to make money off it, or advertise something which could be criminal or Satanic.
Australia has a very strict tenet (as above): Justice through Healing. Or "Reconciliation" if you want the anglo terminology.
If you have someones blessing hypothetical example: If Kevin Buzzacot let me use Uranium Dreaming Myths in an RPG about modern uranium mining, and we shook hands on a specific percentage of profits (he can authorize certain financial meetings due to his position), and I kept the money for myself you would find it hard to get respect from them. (I know of a lot of people entering verbal agreements to use lands and the myths associated with it for a product, and then keeping millions personally when all they had to do was give 1% of there profits to keep anyone happy)
Hope that has made a few things a bit clearer, and feel free to ask anything regarding this,
:) Sanke_Eyes
Snake_Eyes:
My game comes with free dominoes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dominomatrix.svg
Free!
:) Snake_Eyes
Snake_Eyes:
Alright thinking about the scene structure and and character motivations.
Might change Raven to Crow, that seems to be the more common name.
Coyote wants to save herself, will kill everyone to get what she wants.
Snake wants to save the 100 children in stasis.
Spider wants the ship to have a chance at reaching a space port, and to take an artefact/ person of the Earth.
Crow wants to kill the other spacecraft responsible for the slavery.
SCENE 1
The Rainbow Warrior is a contraband space ship, there is military patrol over it, with super obvious cover-up going down.
People want on board, and it is up to the players to choose a few. Apparently there is enough room.
Maybe family and friends?
SCENE 2
The terrorists attack and take over Rainbow Warrior.
Plenty of stuff to make some weapons from fire extinguishers and jury rigged cattle prods. Any kind of explosive or propellent can be used, same as flame thrower or air mortar.
Reason or Force?
SCENE 3
WTF? 100 babies in stasis?!
Also some random adults.
The whole ship is being sold for organ transplants.
Tensions rise.
SCENE 4
In control of the ship:
#Moon Base
#Space Port
#Sell the people as planned
#Back to Earth for more people
#Engage the military
#A Farm-Craft has an emergency beacon
Which to the players choose?
SCENE 5
Should be easy to get some life support if they want to wake everyone up.
Plenty of the adults can pilot the ship, but are effectively leaderless.
#The fight damages the electrical system
#An android goes crazy, controlling the computer jettisons people into space messing with doors, armed with an electric welder/ light saber.
#Nanobots start poisoning people, and turning them into zombie vampires
#A homicidal killer destroys half the farm, and takes hostages, drugs everyone with the entire medical supply in the evening meal.
#Flood and Fire, more damaged systems
#People are divided where they should go, and want to return to earth
SCENE 6
Rendezvous with an orbital war-craft and slave ship.
They have a ship with a tractor-beam, and a dozen shock troops.
The slave ship houses an alien giant, that with a psychic thrall magician technomancer.
Prolly ends badly.
END
Okay that is what I have for the module, what do you think?
:/ Snake_Eyes
jackson_tegu:
Hey, Snake_Eyes!
This is looking really good. I liked what you were saying about the background of the peoples of Australia, and the complicated relationships between cultures, their mythologies, and companies for profit. Lots of good thoughts there.
Quick note: if you change "Raven" to "Crow", you'll have two S names and two C names, which will be more confusing. I think you should keep it as Raven. Since "Snake" and "Spider" sound so different, i don't think it's a problem to have them both start with S. And you might think it's silly, but sometimes people can get confused by little things like that.
Next note: You mentioned being baffled by a few of the things.
I wanted to give you some great links to game-design-thinking gold.
Number one, the more important one: The Big Three (questions that you ask yourself) http://hamsterprophet.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/rpg-design-handbook-chapter-2-part-1/
Number two, great for more thinking: The Power Nineteen (more questions) http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/2006/01/what-are-power-19-pt-1.html
I think your idea of a scenario is a cool one.
However, it doesn't sound like the players have a lot of choice at this point - their motivations are handed to them, and the situations are handed to them too. Now, that can be totally fine - but i think a game will have a more positive impact on its players if they have one (maybe two or three) fields of creative input into the story as it proceeds.
It's possible that i just don't get it yet, which is also ok, and as you say, this is one of your early designs - you're on the newer side of game design, right? So this is a part of your sketch book, and while it's really important right now, maybe it won't be all that important (to you) in a few years.
With that in mind, this game doesn't have to be everything - i don't want to stress you out, by giving you those links. But i'm just saying that this idea has room to grow, still, even over this week.
Snake_Eyes:
Quote from: jackson_tegu on April 10, 2012, 01:41:58 PM
Hey, Snake_Eyes!
This is looking really good. I liked what you were saying about the background of the peoples of Australia, and the complicated relationships between cultures, their mythologies, and companies for profit. Lots of good thoughts there.
Quick note: if you change "Raven" to "Crow", you'll have two S names and two C names, which will be more confusing. I think you should keep it as Raven. Since "Snake" and "Spider" sound so different, i don't think it's a problem to have them both start with S. And you might think it's silly, but sometimes people can get confused by little things like that.
Next note: You mentioned being baffled by a few of the things.
I wanted to give you some great links to game-design-thinking gold.
Number one, the more important one: The Big Three (questions that you ask yourself) http://hamsterprophet.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/rpg-design-handbook-chapter-2-part-1/
Number two, great for more thinking: The Power Nineteen (more questions) http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/2006/01/what-are-power-19-pt-1.html
I think your idea of a scenario is a cool one.
However, it doesn't sound like the players have a lot of choice at this point - their motivations are handed to them, and the situations are handed to them too. Now, that can be totally fine - but i think a game will have a more positive impact on its players if they have one (maybe two or three) fields of creative input into the story as it proceeds.
It's possible that i just don't get it yet, which is also ok, and as you say, this is one of your early designs - you're on the newer side of game design, right? So this is a part of your sketch book, and while it's really important right now, maybe it won't be all that important (to you) in a few years.
With that in mind, this game doesn't have to be everything - i don't want to stress you out, by giving you those links. But i'm just saying that this idea has room to grow, still, even over this week.
Yeah Coyote and Crow, Snake and Spider; It had noticed it with shorthand notes, thanks for mentioning that.
The Big 19, thanks Ill answer that and then give some brief descriptors of the game
***WARNING***
I prolly wont be finishing this game, I lost acess my computer, so unless I get back online in the next two days, Ill just be leaving a brief sketch and not formally submitting the game.
1.) What is your game about?**
A spaceship leaving a dying Earth, it is a military supply ship USS Rainbow Warrior. The PCs find people in stasis in the cargo, and the ship is used for organ donation. The players must choose what to do with the people in stasis whom are mostly small children. The contraband is not descovered until after the ship has lef Earth, and a group of passangers try to seize control of the Rainbow Warrior.
2.) What do the characters do?**
Scene 1: The players have room for several of the people trying to escape Earth to be passangers onboard the Rainbow Warrior. A 100 foot tall Battle-tech Mecha and a single person orbital stealth fighter patrol the craft during its loading and take off.
Scene 2: Passanges take hostages.
Scene 3: Players find children in stasis used for organ harvesting.
Scene 4: Pre-written events such as destruction of services, and mutiny require player choice, and there are only about six pre defined objective. Sell the people as intended, Return to Earth; Escape or Confrontation; Go to the Moon, or Space Port. There are some random elements such as a Farm Ship is in distress and releases an emergency beacon.
Scene 5: The players either reach a space port, or are confronted by the salvers, a small craft with a tractor beam and a half dozen shock troops in environmental suits. The slaver is an extradmenisional alien with a technomacer magicain vassal.
Most likely it ends badly, and the game changes after the reveal of children in stasis.
3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?**
Each of the four characters has a seperate agenda, they are given an opportunity to be the secondary flight crew after an accident involving the regular contingency. Due to logistical problems they are required to be on board. And should see this as an opportunity to get a few family or friends aboard the suplly ship USS Rainbow Warrior.
Senior Flight Commander (Coyote): Wants to retire, and has paid for the family to be onboard another craft, a farm ship. Primary concerned with family over morality.
Medical Officer (Doctor) Snake: Wants to save as many people as possible, straining sevices until the craft can reach a large space station. Would go back to Earth to reload people.
Navigation Officer Spider (Lantern): A cybernetic human that after a vehicle accident had both hands and the back part of the skull replaced with robotics. They have an Earth artefact, and several people that they need to get off-world safely.
Recreation Non-Commission Officer (Crow): Wants to bring the slavers to justice over the liberty of everyone.
4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
The game is about slavery and organ harvesting, does not really refernce much of the current events such as China using political prisoners as organ "donors". Mostly it is a space adventure with blatent images and motifs. Prolly very lacking with several of the encounters and scenarios, I shoudl do a little more here if I have the time.
5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
Each of the four characters has a seperate agenda. There is no character generation other than picking one of four pre-generated characters.
A fifth player should play the role of DM/ Storyteller, as could a sixth player. At seven players they should be playing Traveller or similar game, though could simply play a person on board the space craft.
6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
Players dont really die, there are no mechanisms for death, there are several instances of violence which should have a simple choice to affect the outcome. Dominoes the mechanism for inter-player resolution has strict values at the start, that are changed though individual unique ability.
I cant say reward, but writing down scenes and dialogue is meant to be part of the game.
Each player is very much weighted to beat other characters in some way, and not be able to "win" trying certain course of action against others.
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
Each four characters has a speciality.
8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?
The Players (Coyote is the default player for introducing the reveal and encounters), Ideally a fifth as a DM/ Storyteller, and a 6th player could be the second DM.
9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
Idk?
10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
Dominoes, and a simple Karma resolution. There is a bit of gambling, and players can use a bit of metagaming.
There is a page of dominoes to cut out, so you dont need to own any.
11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
Bluff and secrets. Though each player may only engage in a certain amount of actions (Three Maximum) per scene, being involved in narration drains resources, so that a player with more resources is more likely to carry weight in narrating change of drama within the game.
12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
Through the unique gamble mechanic. Though it can be decline or advancement to the final goal. It is not meant to be a campaign, just a single game session, the reveal sort of makes a second playing of the game a different experience.
13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
Through action, and then using unique ability to gamble players can change the outcome of the narrative, and therefor potentially reach the personal objective, and "win" the game.
14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
Talk about slavery, and organ donations, it has a strong Native American motif with scenes being bridged by quotes from Native American myths.
15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
I have not completed the game yet, but it is mostly a small series of scenes regarding the space-craft.
I wanted to include some typical space opera elements to make it appear more like a traditional game.
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
Hopefully using the Native American quotes about stars and space, sort of suits the set in the future and end of the world feel. As the players each have a sperate agenda to what they consider important to the welfare of humanity, when the premise has defined the problem as unsolvable from the onset of the game.
17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can’t, don’t, or won’t?
Idk?
18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
Would like to finish it for Game Chef 2012.
19.) Who is your target audience?
Three random people from Game Chef that review the game. so maybe only a traget audience of a single game or two. (Nothing overly grand)
Thanks for the link to the questions, Ill try to outline a bit more of the characters and plot elements.
:) Snake_Eyes
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page