Started by Ghostwheel, April 23, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: Willow on April 30, 2012, 07:14:13 PMSome of these issues can be resolved with house rules- personally 3d6 vs d20 is not a dealbreaker for me, but I think that's a swap that's easy to implement and falls within the realm of 'still undeniably D&D.'
Quote from: Ghostwheel on April 30, 2012, 06:58:13 PMSome of my problems with D&D 4e:Abilities feel very standardized from what I've played (I've only been in 4-5 games thus far, though one or two only lasted a few sessions), so people feel very similar.Battles feel like they last too long. Battles in my opinion should last 4-8 rounds, it feels like they last 10-20 rounds in 4e which can easily lead to boredom.Battles seem to follow the same template almost every time. First few rounds you use encounter powers, after that you spam your at-wills until the end of the battle, which gets boring.Tied to the last one, it's impossible to regain powers with actions (or some other way) to create tactical options with more depth.The RNG is still based around a d20, so even if you get an advantage like moving just into position to get combat advantage, for many characters it doesn't make a difference.Damage-wise, some characters feel much more powerful than others, even when they're supposed to A. fill the same role, and B. the less-damaging characters lack anything extra (like a status effect) to make them better.Newbie traps still exist, things that look cool but are in fact a waste of resources which newbies take and don't make them any better.There are many monsters that don't have a specific defense which is low enough to make much of a difference on a d20 RNG.Lack of customizability of classes and multiclassing.Scaling ability scores to the point where defenses can fall off the RNG on one side or another.Lack of resource management which creates a lack of options in risk vs. rewardThere being enough small bonuses that you can rack up in various ways that lead to falling off the RNG.Races still shoehorn classes into them if you want to be viable.The 15-minute workday still being present in 2 aspects - daily powers, and healing surges. Once someone begins to run out of either, they call a halt to rest.
QuoteI'm a great believer that statistically the average will eventually come out, and it just means that if the system is tight enough and works well mathematically that it won't result in something that leads to Very Bad News (like a TPK or something similar)
Quotethe possibility of losing permanently looming closer
Quote from: Callan S. on May 01, 2012, 10:08:09 PMGhostwheel, has your PC ever died whilst playing 4e? Even then, did it default that resurrections were available? The only real way to lose (rather than just hit a speed bump) is a TPK, which you call very bad news. Even then if you make a new character at one level lower (or more so, at the same level), it's still little more than a speed bump.
Quote from: Callan S. on May 01, 2012, 10:08:09 PMBut really the average needs to result in a TPK? Otherwise all the manouvering for bonuses does not matter. If the average is set towards you winning, you can just ride the bell curve to victory, no manouvering required?
Quote from: Callan S. on May 01, 2012, 10:08:09 PMWhat do you mean by this? What rules for PC death were you using?
Quote from: Callan S. on May 01, 2012, 10:08:09 PMAnd as I said before, the length of these games distorts the idea of winning and losing. To go up a ladder in snakes and ladders does not mean you've won snakes and ladders. Each battle in D&D is really just a ladder (or regular die roll advancement) in a much larger, singular game session.
QuoteMaking a new character is just as bad, since it disrupts the story and disconnects a player from something they're engaged and devoted to.
QuoteThe average should be set towards the middle
QuoteObviously loss does not mean a TPK, and there are safety nets to ensure that small mistakes don't automatically result in a loss
Quoteand prefer that players lose without dying if it can be finagled
QuoteNot perfectly--but as near as can be. That said, when there need to be tendencies, they need to be set in the PCs' favor so that they don't have a good chance of dying every fight.