Hidden die rolls and hidden player decisions
Daniel B:
Nico, here's an idea that is a modification of Callan's suggestion; I'll give it in D&D 3.5/4 terms because I'm most familiar with those systems.
Each skill is rolled against a target DC. Generally, the players can discover the approximate range of the DC by asking questions. "How hard is it to break down the door?" is a pretty obvious question and the GM can almost spell out the DC by describing the door material, whether is it reinforced with metal, etc.
The penalty for failure comes well after the roll, and the GM doesn't want to tell the players the result. When sneaking past the sleeping dragon, were the PCs successful or is the dragon just really good at pretending to be asleep?
Here, the GM can again give a description of the DC, but secretly bump the DC with another die-roll. In this example, the DC for sneaking past the dragon may be DC 40. With bumping, the new DC is 36 + d8.
Of course, the DC and the die-size are still up to the whims of the GM, so bias may sneak in here, but the number showing on the die-roll may provide the GM with more force. "What?! You rolled an 8?? No wonder we failed."
Dan
Callan S.:
Quote
So you're right: The problem here is not really "cheating" but GMs indulging on their own whims.
Just on this, I said nothing along those lines. A GM following their whims is all you ever have - the vaunted 'neutral GM' is a myth. If you want neutral, use a machine, not a human. Only use a human if you enjoy using something/someone that will indulge whims rather than be a machine. That's what I'm saying - if PC's are plotting against each other, it needs to be in regards to points or something that rules can and do deal with, or else if it's something only a GM can judge, then the players themselves have made it about something that will involve a GM indulging his whims.
Quote
Hmm... You still can't verify that the GM didn't manipulate anything with this method. If the GM knows when a particular secret roll will be made (which is usually the case), then the outcome could be statically determined without anyone noticing. Not really much better than just the basic method of hiding the rolls without the players being able to check.
Have the random dice rolls numbered. The players call out numbers at random. This determines what roll is used (GM can even note next to the number what it was used for in play)
Actually I wonder if I could use that for my rogue situation - might be fun to have the player call out a number, hoping it's the right one...hehehehe
Erik Weissengruber:
I have seen hidden die rolls used to great effect in The Mountain Witch.
Duels are resolved with such rolls.
The duelists roll a die and hide it.
If either wants to press the attack the two results are exposed and compared, high wins.
If both parties hold their action, they get to roll another die, and again choose to press the attack or hold again.
A third round of rolling is possible.
The tense expectation of when the blows will start to fall exists in the fiction. It also exists in the resolution procedure that the players are engaging.
That parallel between fictional situation and player behaviour is rarely accomplished in RPGs. I love it when it does happen.
fodazd:
Quote from: Daniel B on May 30, 2012, 03:18:08 PM
Here, the GM can again give a description of the DC, but secretly bump the DC with another die-roll. In this example, the DC for sneaking past the dragon may be DC 40. With bumping, the new DC is 36 + d8.
Well, with this mechanic alone I would run into a very similar problem. How could I check that the GM really rolled an 8?
Quote from: Callan S. on May 30, 2012, 05:40:36 PM
Just on this, I said nothing along those lines. A GM following their whims is all you ever have - the vaunted 'neutral GM' is a myth. If you want neutral, use a machine, not a human. Only use a human if you enjoy using something/someone that will indulge whims rather than be a machine. That's what I'm saying - if PC's are plotting against each other, it needs to be in regards to points or something that rules can and do deal with, or else if it's something only a GM can judge, then the players themselves have made it about something that will involve a GM indulging his whims.
Split: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forge/index.php?topic=33123.0
Quote from: Callan S. on May 30, 2012, 05:40:36 PM
Have the random dice rolls numbered. The players call out numbers at random. This determines what roll is used (GM can even note next to the number what it was used for in play)
Actually, that's a really good idea! The players could just remember which number they called, and then they could check the number after the information is revealed. There is also very little overhead involved in this method.
Quote from: Erik Weissengruber on May 31, 2012, 05:34:07 AM
The tense expectation of when the blows will start to fall exists in the fiction. It also exists in the resolution procedure that the players are engaging.
That parallel between fictional situation and player behaviour is rarely accomplished in RPGs. I love it when it does happen.
Well, since we are playing GURPS we have very little representation of the fictional situation in the mechanics... But the way this is handled in The Mountain Witch sounds really good.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page