The Forge Archives

My fascination with cyberpunk has existed since 87 or so when I discovered the Neuromancer computer game (kind of an ass-backwards way to get into the genre, but hey). Since then, the cyberpunk genre has come and gone, RPGs based on these principles have come and gone, and I'm still left looking for that one perfect cyberpunk game. So I guess I gotta' write it myself.

I've spent literally years contemplating the subject and why RPGS have done such a piss-poor job of portraying the genre. Cyberpunk in RPGs have some of the same problems as fantasy in RPGS, neither match the source literature. As I'm sure most Forge members can attest, RPGs haven't exactly been real coherent in their design goals. One sets out to emulate a genre and somehow ends up with a combat system.

Of course, the other problem is the literature itself. As with most speculative fiction, it hits several points but can't predict the future. Seeing as the genre is 17 years old (as of the publication of Neuromancer), a lot of things have happened that have refuted many of the points. Japan did not become the world power everyone was predicting it would. While corporations certainly control a lot, it's still governments that are the big powerhouses of the world. And the internet didn't exactly measure up to the dreams of the writers.

As cyberpunk is primarily a literary genre, it seems to me that many of the problems arising from emulating it arise from the differences in the GNS model. Books are primarily narrative. The cyberpunk books I've read don't seem to want to simulate a future-world, they want to tell a story in that future world. A story about people. And so, I've decided that the "perfect" cyberpunk game would worry more about narrativism and less about what kinds of cool cyberware you can buy.

Unfortunately, the word 'cyberpunk' (like fantasy) has too much RPG baggage attached to it. One of my ideas is to change the 'genre tag.' So, no more cyberpunk. Instead, I'm writing a techno-urban game. In fact, to go one further, I'm writing HEX, a game of techno-urban horror (because horror always ends up in my game at some level, might as well plan for that).

HEX has 2 stats: Edge and Cred (short for Credibility). These range from 1-10. Edge covers mental and physical prowess, as well as that nebulous edge that all the technourbanists want (extensive essays have been written to more closely define the Edge stat, but for short and sweet purposes, it's mental and physical prowess) while Cred covers the web of connections that the technourbanists have, as well as their reputation and social prowess. Rolls are made with a number of d10s equal to the stat. Highest die is the final die, with multiple matches adding 1 to the result. Taking a page from Hero Wars for extended actions (like combat) with the differences between matching rolls adding to Impairment. Impairment is a running total that is tested against Edge or Cred (dependent on the type of conflict), but only when the 'attacker' wishes to push his advantage.

The neat thing (at least to me) is that, everytime you make a successful roll, your applicable stat goes up by one. This continues going up until you a) fail (in which case the stat is reset to its original value) or b) hit the max of 10. Haven't figured out what happens when you hit 10 yet, but options include raising the stat, experience points, an M&M, or other sundry effects (perhaps relating to the Alienation mechanics).

The original HEX system had attributes and skills that were rated in a hexadecimel string (like so: A741, B832, etc.) and I'm keeping this mechanic for the Knacks, which are descriptive modifiers to rolls (similar to keywords from Hero Wars, skills from Unknown Armies, or descriptors from Sorcerer). Anytime the final die is higher than one of these categories, the player gets a number of descriptors for the action attempted. These are gonna work kinda like Raises in one of the AEG games or simpler director-stance to the player. (I'm explaining that poorly. Let me know if that makes any sense.)

That's the basic system I'm pursuing now. But what about the setting? A few changes are in order to both distance and enumerate the problems inherent in cyberpunk. To sum up quickly (cuz this is getting long): Idoru, or All Tomorrows Parties level of tech, not the Sprawl series.

1. No cyberware. It's been eclipsed by bio and nanotech. In fact, I'm considering leaving out all the 'tech talk' that plagues such games and just making such warez simply be Knacks. Players make up their own.

2. Governments are the big 'baddies.' Rebellion has always factored into the genre. Other games have said that they were about rebellion, but never really were (How can you rebel against the corps when you simply do what they tell you to to buy more gleaming chome?). I'm contemplating setting up a system where the players would make up the game's 'big baddie' before characters are made to really drive this focus home.

3. Alienation seems to be the other big theme of the literature. I would really like to encourage this attitude in some manner. My initial ideas involve having events that affect an 'Alienation' stat. Of course, what happens when the magic number is hit is still nebulous. One of my ideas was to have the character be 'taken over' by another player. This would definitely alienate the player, but probably not in a good way. Another idea was to rewrite the character and then hand it back to the player, but this also smacks of heavy-handiness. Any ideas?

There's a lot more, but the basics are there. A lot more specific info has been written. I'm quite interested in your thoughts regarding the system, setting, genre, or anything else.

Mark

Hmm. When you say that multiple matches add to the total, does that mean that matches of the high die add, or any dice that match other dice? I assume the former, but it's not clear. Why do the matching thing at all? All it seems to do is increase the range of potential results allowing for occasionally wildly high rolls.

And how's this for a balance for high Cred and Edge. Every time one of these go up, so does alienation. Representing the nervousness of Edge, and the existential feel that Cred is fleeting. When alienation gets to the magic number, the player rewrites hs own character. Back around "starting" levels of attributes.

Make it so that if a character misses a roll, his stat goes down. This will give players incentive to try very hard things so that they will either look good, or fail, setting their high stat back down to a more reasonable level. So a player basically has some control of keeping thier character as is as long as they continue a dramatic see-saw of exciting success and failure. Or they can choose to go for a big success, and change theri character.

Sounds like wins all around.

Mike

QuoteHmm. When you say that multiple matches add to the total, does that mean that matches of the high die add, or any dice that match other dice? I assume the former, but it's not clear. Why do the matching thing at all? All it seems to do is increase the range of potential results allowing for occasionally wildly high rolls.

Sorry, highest matched die add to the total. The matching thing is primarily for the Knacks, which range from 0-15. Kinda' hard to roll 15 on a d10. Suggestions are welcome, however. I'm not tied to the die mechanic (but I do like the hex strings).

QuoteAnd how's this for a balance for high Cred and Edge. Every time one of these go up, so does alienation. Representing the nervousness of Edge, and the existential feel that Cred is fleeting. When alienation gets to the magic number, the player rewrites hs own character. Back around "starting" levels of attributes.

I was thinking along these lines, but backwards. Every time you failed (and your applicable stats reset), you'd get a point of Alienation. Somehow, for some reason, I couldn't get the idea that Cred was the only applicable stat for gaining Alienation out of my head, but your comments kicked that idea firmly out of my head. *sigh* Mental blocks are stupid.

As per the rest, still thinking about that...

Hi there,

It might also be worthwhile to consider Alienation as a dualist feature of the game - in the source literature, no one is a viable protagonist unless they are in large part alienated, but there is also a degree of alienation beyond which one is a pure scumbag (Tzerzybashijian, if I'm remembering his name right) or utterly inhuman, however sympathetic (the AI cowboy). Case and Molly exist right in that "romantic loser/loner" zone that works perfectly - kind of the whole Dylan-esque, "to live outside the law, you must be honest."

Part of the essence of the source literature, it seems to me, is that the most horrid fate imaginable is to be actually fully assimilated into the culture - the culture itself is so speed-crazed dog-eat-dog, so defined itself by culture-shock, that to be non-alienated is to be the most inhuman of all. (Exceptions: those folks from "hip and different" cultures who've eschewed the commercial context of technoogy, notably rastas, the only sane people in Neuromancer in its terms.)

So protagonists, it seems to me, walk the tightrope between being too "in" to be human (because the "box" is horrible) and being too "out" to be human (because we are social people). Hence all the outlaw-togs and drugs and hip Lou Reed style shadowed eyesockets, but also all the striving for personal contact and fleeting moments of meaning.

My God, I'm having eighties flashbacks. Must emerge from thread.

Best,
Ron

... she blinded me with science ...
... do ya come from the land Down Under ...
... rain keeps fallin', rain keeps fallin', down, down, down ...
... burning down the house!

Very intriguing, I'm looking forward to hearing more about this.

On the note of alienation, I've always seen it as part of the statement made about corporate/modern life by cyberpunk;  Encourage folks to be alienated from themselves in order to sell them stuff.  If you don't like who you are, you can be someone better at the low price of...(enter Tibby Tappins' infomercial from Requiem for a Dream...)

Of course, if you can completely identify with that culture, can you identify with yourself at all?  Like Ron said, it's probably healthier to be alienated when dealing with a culture where nothing has lasting value, including your self-identity.

As far as the tech is concerned, I'd be less concerned with detailed canon on what is established tech.  It seems like your game would be able to handle all brands of cyberpunk, from old school Videodrome to Dirty Pair Nanotech.  

Chris

Ron,

Perfect analysis, and something that I'm definitely striving for. In point of fact, I was contemplating actually using Alienation as a good thing, in certain circumstances. Thoughts at the moment involve Alienation subtracting from total Impairment (this specifically refers to Cred, as you can 'shrug off' any assaults upon your person). Alternatively, there was an idea of assigning mental disadvantages to certain levels of Alienation, but I'm always leery of simulating personality thorugh mechanics.

Personal contact and fleeting moments of meaning is another element I definitely want to emphasize. Cred would act as a measure of personal relationships as well. One of the things I'm including that I neglected to mention was that each level of Cred includes 'contacts' (and not in the Shadowrun 'guys-who-get-me-stuff' sense). Still fiddling with the specifics.

Otherwise, spot on. I'm not there yet, but I'm glad people are getting where I'm coming from.

-Mark

Chris,

QuoteOf course, if you can completely identify with that culture, can you identify with yourself at all? Like Ron said, it's probably healthier to be alienated when dealing with a culture where nothing has lasting value, including your self-identity.

One of the questions I hope this game will raise, as well as address.

QuoteAs far as the tech is concerned, I'd be less concerned with detailed canon on what is established tech. It seems like your game would be able to handle all brands of cyberpunk, from old school Videodrome to Dirty Pair Nanotech.

Yes and no. As it stands, yes. However, there are some setting elements (not yet addressed in this thread) that err towards nano-. This setting might eventually be divorced from the system though, and exist more as a stand-alone setting/supplement.

-Mark

There's a definite sentimental streak running through most cyberpunk characters, glimpsed in their longing for their pasts when they were more innocent.  Most of the competent ones (Case, Molly, even Turner, who comes off as one of the least alienated of the lot) have been burned and grown calloused before we meet them (at least in the Sprawl trilogy).   The rookies or idealists, on the other hand (Bobby in Count Zero, Mona in Mona Lisa Overdrive, and Cowboy in HardWired), face the prospect of being burned and losing their innocence as their major thematic conflict.

I really like the way this is shaking together.  Andy K., in another thread here, has discussed using six-sided dice with Japanese numbers.  Strikes me as a nice atmospheric prop for this game, if you go for the gestalt of the Japanese technocracy.

Best,

Blake

Blake,

I think the characters tend to run to extremes. Either they're sentimental bastards (in a good way ;)) or 'innocence abroad.' One of my favorite Gibson stories is New Rose Hotel (which, BTW, is the only decent movie based on his works, IMHO), which I think clearly shows the dichotomy (and is a damn fine story to boot).

As per the dice, do they make 'em in d10s? ;) My poor understanding of mathematics has led me to favor the d10 with my few times of messing about with the system.

-Mark

I didn't see any mention of d10s, unfortunately.  Maybe there's room for a supplemental d6 color mechanic somehow, something tied to giri or even Ginza-style outside influence that draws characters back into the box?

Best,

Blake

Blake,

Jeez, that would be cool. Too cool for me, unfortunately. I'd have no idea how to implement it.

-Mark

I dunno, maybe have it provide a bonus die for roleplaying appropriate to what the die represents, whether it be "giri" or "brand name flash."  OR have it represent how much the "box" intrudes... a roll of 6 interjects something corporate into the scene, a billboard or corporate spy-cam or something.

Best,

Blake