The Forge Archives

I've been a lurker here off an on for some time now. Anyhow, I've been kicking about an idea ever since I bought Sorcerer & Sword, and I thought I'd throw out some of the ideas I have to get some feedback on it.

Where once magnificent buildings pierced the sky, there now lays rubble. The wisdom of centuries, once treasured in priceless and beautifully illustrated manuscripts are but ashes. In the great halls, where kings, senators, emperors, and men-who-thought-themselves-gods once ruled, there are naught but trampled bones. Where once choirs raised their voices to give praise to gods, there is only the howling of the winter wind.

The fires of civilization have all but flickered out in the Long Winter. Spurred on by their unending animosities and the undying ancestor spirits, the peoples of the north evoked the Eternal Winter: massive glaciers buried the magnificent cities of the south, seas of water and grain both froze, and what the cold did not destroy, the iron and fire of the Northmen did.

For centuries, for millennia, generations of Northerners rowed south to the lands, guided by their heroes and leaders in crusades against the weak and decadent southerners. Gold, and more important glory, was abundant upon such excursions of rapine and slaughter, but winter would always end and the Northmen always forced back... But now, the Northmen wander the bleak winter landscape, the shattered cities of their foes empty, and in their greatest glory, the Northmen have entered a twilight, a world where the needs and enmities of the dead rule the living.

The Cult of Heroes or the Cult of Ancestors, rules the Northmen. The Northmen do more than revere their dead, they live with them. Heroes do not lie dead, but return, wearing the flesh of their descendents to lead their progeny. Those who speak with, and share their bodies with the honored ancestors are the greatest of the living, and when they too pass on, they will become heroes, and return forth to honor their own descendents... or so it is said... in truth... it is said that the dead have insatiable appetites for the world of the living, that their needs and wants and desires eclipse those of the living, and that the costs of hosting one's own ancestor-gods within one's flesh are far too dear...

The Mythic Past, The Haunted Present

The Northmen, a diverse group from the frozen lands of the North have always called themselves the People. They believe that the human soul is immortal, and they have good reason to believe so. There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is only the People and their world. And when one of the People dies, his or her soul leaves their body, and freed of that flesh-prison remains in the world of the living, observing its descendents, acting as patron and sometimes judge of its own progeny.

This the Northmen know for certain. Their ancestors haunt the woods, the oceans, their homes and communities. When the winds howl, their voices can be heard. Sometimes the ancestors leave messages scrawled in the snow, or cause a dog to bark in the semblance of human speech. Most of these ancestor-spirits can be mollified by a few offerings throughout the year. They are but mere shadows of themselves.

However, those who burn brighter than others, with the greatest power and influence in life, the largest appetites, the most forceful personalities, and the respect of their peers are no so easily appeased. Even in death, their ambition knows no bounds. They are unwilling to surrender those things for which they fought so hard for in life. These Ghost Heroes are known as Shades, and even in death, they embody power... a power that many of the living crave.

These Shades are worshipped by the Northmen. The Skalds still sing songs of their battles, loves, and losses millennia after their deaths. Their name runes are embodied with power. Shrines exist marking their greatest victories. Their children bear their names. Their memory endures... as do they. And to reward this reverence, the Shades assist their descendents. Those of their blood can evoke the greatest of heroes their people have ever known. Not just heroes who have lived one life, but those who have seen countless centuries as they are evoked by unbroken lines of descendents throughout time. These chosen champions, known as the Wyrdlings, Shadewalkers, Reborn Heroes, and a dozen other names can invite these god-ancestors to do their bidding. Walls can tumble down. Mountains shake. The sun to run with blood. The moon to turn dark at their command. The mythic power of the gods is theirs to command. And the price? All these ancestor spirits and shades want is a little taste of what it was like to be human... and your soul.

Hmmm. I'll take a guess. Humanity is remaining normal, and not getting lost in epic quests and other grandiosity. That is, the shades prompt you to be more like them by giving of your soul to accomplish great tasks.

And Humanity zero means that you, too, become a shade? That would be neat.

Mike

Quote from: Mike HolmesHmmm. I'll take a guess. Humanity is remaining normal, and not getting lost in epic quests and other grandiosity. That is, the shades prompt you to be more like them by giving of your soul to accomplish great tasks.

And Humanity zero means that you, too, become a shade? That would be neat.

Mike

Humanity is fairly close, but really tied to the relationship between the needs of the host and the possessing spirit.

Humanity zero: No, it means you're personality is greatly subsumed by the possessing spirit. In your bid for power and fame, the spirit dominates you, subverts your identity, and lives his life in YOUR body. You never get to be a shade - since nobody remembers you, they only remember the Shade/hero that continued his legacy in your body. I mean, ultimately you want to become a shade - it is a form of immortality.

Although I do like your idea as well... I'll have to mull over it...

The Sorcerers: Shadewalkers
   The Sorcerers in this game are known by many names, but here they will be titled Shadewalkers. They are the living descendents of great heroes; the blood of the most powerful and infamous people run through their veins. And their ancestors have a vested interest in seeing his own bloodline prosper, for it is only through his living descendents that one of these great heroes can again enjoy the pleasures denied to the dead. The Shadewalkers are those descendents who host their ancient and powerful ancestors in their body, in an ambivalent relationship which all too often ends in tragedy for the Shadewalker but greater glory for their ancestor.

Demons: Shades
   Among the Northmen, the demons are simply those powerful, almost god-like ancestor-heroes known as Shades who have witnessed and participated in centuries of both heroic and infamous adventures, stories recounted to children over the fires. Stories sung of by millions of voices over the centuries. Stories that even the gods themselves would envy. The Shades are the greatest heroes of a heroic people. It is said that the Shades of the Northmen are like the stars in the sky: infinite.

Humanity
   Humanity: those passions and desires that make one's life worth living, those very things that the dead miss so sorely. What makes the heroes, both living and dead in this game so heroic, is the sheer enormity of their desires, be it for power, glory, wealth, or revenge. For the Northmen, humanity are those things you strive so hard for in life, but that you lose in death, and only in returning back in the guise of the living will you ever again be able to re-experience those things that made you so human.

The Price
   The price is one thing: your humanity. This conflict is simple and focuses on two themes, two paradoxes: The needs of the living versus the needs of the dead, and becoming a hero versus being eclipsed by the hero.

   What makes these Shades powerful is their desires and their passions. What makes these shades so dangerous is their desires and their passions. When one becomes a Shadewalker they enter a pact with something possibly far more ancient, cunning, and powerful than themselves. The Shades needs are great, their hunger unimaginable. Whether it be the taste of meat and mead or blood, the desire to feel the wind whipping through their hair or to slay the Shadewalker host-body of an ancient rival, the Shade is a demanding spirit, and its needs are likely to run counter to many of the needs and desires of its host, the Shadewalker. Essentially, the Shadewalker is surrendering those things that make life so pleasurable for them so that the dead can again re-experience these things; the Shadewalker is sacrificing for himself or herself that very thing that the Shade craves even in death.

   The desire for every Shadewalker is to become a hero like that Shade that it embodies. Summoning and hosting one's hero-ancestor is a shortcut to attaining that power and notoriety. Hosting and controlling a powerful ancestor immediately brings one remarkable power and glory. The ultimate goal is to become a hero so that one can return later after death to relive and re-experience that denied to the dead. Yet controlling these ancient-heroes is no easy task, and all too often the Shadewalkers themselves are crushed beneath the sheer force of power and personality wielded by the Shade. The Shade craves glory themselves and are often unwilling to give that glory to their own descendents. The Shade wants its memory to linger on, its own deeds to be recounted, not the deeds of its mere host. Thus the Shade's interest is increasing its own legacy, not contributing to the legacy of others. Over time, all too often the personality of the Shade destroys and consumes the personality of the Shadewalker and the Shadewalker is but a vessel to the might and power of the shade. The Shadewalker's own name is forgotten and the Shade possesses him, body and soul, and the Shadewalker dies anonymous and unmourned, while the victorious Shade can then walk in the flesh of its other progeny, awed by its growing power and renown.

   Thus, in pursuit of power and fame, the Shadewalker puts their humanity at risk, surrendering their own needs to meet the needs of the dead, and struggling to ensure that the fame of their ancestor does not overshadow their own fame. Success means that upon death, they may return to rob the living of their needs and fame, while failure means a short life of slavery to the voracious needs of an avaricious ancestor.

   A Humanity of Zero means that the Shadewalker's own personality has been almost entirely subdued by the weight of the Shade's personality. The Shadewalker's identity and body is usurped by the Shade who continues living out its past life in the body of the Shadewalker, warring against ancient enemies and cavorting about madly in its new flesh body.

Ah, that's very nice. So it's a tightrope act. Try to be a hero, so you can become known, but don't rely so heavily on your shades to do so, or they'll end up absorbing you and you'll be forgotten. Metaphorically, you've ridden the coat-tails too much and people remember their contributions more than yours. From this it could be indeterminate whether the character actually is absorbed, or just never is important enough again to be a hero.

Neat stuff. What you have is an impetus to do heroic fantasy stuff, but all in the context of the overarching moral dilemma. Very nice.

Some technical stuff. Do shades "ride" the shadowwalkers? That is, are they parasites? Or can they exist outside of the shadowwalkers? Can they be Imanent per S&Sword?

What is Lore? What do rituals look like? Basic ecstatic ancestor worship?

Can you give some sample prices and descriptors?

Mike

Cool.  Are you considering it to be a post-apocalyptic setting, or a fantasy setting?  Are the shades mostly, or exclusively, from the fallen golden age?

This whole setup reminds me quite a bit of the later Dune books, actually, in the way the royal family is (rightly) suspected of being possessed by the spirits of their ancestors.  

Another question -- in this setting, is it socially acceptable to be a Shadewalker, or are they outcasts?

Quote from: Mike HolmesAh, that's very nice. So it's a tightrope act. Try to be a hero, so you can become known, but don't rely so heavily on your shades to do so, or they'll end up absorbing you and you'll be forgotten.

SNIP!

Neat stuff. What you have is an impetus to do heroic fantasy stuff, but all in the context of the overarching moral dilemma. Very nice.

Some technical stuff. Do shades "ride" the shadowwalkers? That is, are they parasites? Or can they exist outside of the shadowwalkers? Can they be Imanent per S&Sword?

What is Lore? What do rituals look like? Basic ecstatic ancestor worship?

Can you give some sample prices and descriptors?

Mike

Yes, you described it perfectly. It is a tight-rope act, particularly in not being overshadowed by your Ancestor who has been worshipped like a god for a couple of centuries and is an old hand at this "hero business". I also think that an important role-play element is that a) The spirit knows what's important: life (and the experience of it) yet b) the Shadewalker is constantly not living his life, since its being interrupted by the needs of a long dead and overly-demanding spirit. The Shadewalker probably won't know how important these things he's surrendering are until he is dead and suddenly realizes what he's been missing.

There's a component I haven't really mentioned either: The Demon/Ancestor/Shade needs his descendents, yet in possessing and using and sometimes throwing them away, the shade is compromising his own future, so there is a counterbalance to keep the Shade from acting entirely psychotic.

These three paradoxes: the needs of the shade vs the shadewalker, the heroes in competition, and the need for the shade to protect its progeny yet at the same time compromising its most powerful creates a few interesting moral issues to explore in play.

In most cases, Shades do "ride" their Shadewalkers? Yes, they are parasites or possessing demons. Which I think is up to the players and the GMs. There are also passing spirits, but I was going to get into that later. The Shadows which are lesser unknown spirits are more like ghostly little imps with little power and generally ignored (although people fear in the back of their minds of ending up like them).

One of my concerns is that people just think of the Northmen as generic vikings, so there's going to be some examples of different groups to fire the imagination, so there's a little bit of twisting and modifying of rituals and the like for each group - in particular burial rituals and the like. Some can be immanents, I'm still working on that, but there are other immanents in the world...

What's been described is primarily the male practice. Women have a different type of Sorcery (just a modification - I'm still working on the ideas). Then of course, there was the sorcery practiced to the south which deeply offended the Northmen which I haven't gotten around to describing. Basically I wanted to start with the Northmen and really give a good background on them, and then as players adventure about, the practices of the lost kingdoms to the south be revealed as forgotten, diaboloical (from the Northmen perspective), and mysterious.

I'll post the Lore and Descriptors in a different post. Thanks for the feedback, its gotten the wheels spinning.

Quote from: DannyKCool.  Are you considering it to be a post-apocalyptic setting, or a fantasy setting?  Are the shades mostly, or exclusively, from the fallen golden age?

This whole setup reminds me quite a bit of the later Dune books, actually, in the way the royal family is (rightly) suspected of being possessed by the spirits of their ancestors.  

Another question -- in this setting, is it socially acceptable to be a Shadewalker, or are they outcasts?

Well, it was going to be a Fantasy setting, but now that ou mention post-apocalyptic, that could work as well. In this case, the Long Winter could be a Nuclear Winter, and the Shades are all those that died in the nuclear holocaust. I think I'll add this as a possible twist - it was something I hadn't even considered initially.

The most powerful shades are from the "Golden Age", although most Northmen think that they are now living in a new "Golden Age", even though its a bitter victory - they've conquered most of their foes and they've got little to show for it.

In most of the Northmen societies (which I'll hope to differentiate a bit between) Shadewalkers are generally socially acceptable, if somewhat terrifying - a mixed blessing. Its greatly contingent upon what Ancestor is bound. An ancestor who last time he was bound butchered half the community is probably seen as very foreboding, whereas one who defended the community from an onslaught of ancient spirits in the past and earned the community a century's reprieve is probably honored... but... in the back of their minds, the community will worry that the return of this ancestor might cause yet another cycle of events, where the defeated Shades return to wreak vengeance. Part of the feel of this world is that there are two worlds: the past and the present and both have merged as the Shades never forget and continue their centuries' old feuds.

It seems like in many S&S and Sorcery games, the characters are loners, but I wanted them to be tied into a community and relationships - one that stretches back before time, although there's also plenty of opportunity to run around and rampage through ice-encrusted cities still packed with wealth and strange treasures.

The Shadewalkers
   Shadewalkers are those few chosen by their ancestors to serve as mediums and companions. While highly respected by the living, almost revered as much as the ancestors, they are also greatly feared. Many of the great tragedies recalled by the Skalds, Chanters, and others are stories of Shadewalkers who befell a terrible fate. The Shadewalkers are the heroes of today, the leaders of the Northmen, those who invoked the Long Winter, the new Age of Heroes, and who have led their people south into victory and dominance over the lands and seas.

Stamina

The Northmen are great and terrible in appearance. Towering over the lesser people to the south, they claim that their ancestors were once giants and all the world was theirs'. A hale and hearty people, their stamina is not just in their bodies, but in their vitality and a zest for life, their unquenchable thirst for experience. The ancient heroes all had remarkable strength of body and mind, and the present heroes are no different. It is said that the Shades themselves only take on Shadewalkers worthy of them.

   Blood of Shame: It is all too apparent that somewhere within you have blood of the Southrons in you. You are held in contempt by your fellows. You are soft and weak and near worthless. It would have been best if you were not born at all, thus unable to pollute the blood of the People.

   Giant's Blood: A giant among giants, the ancient blood runs thick and strong through your veins. Your powerful frame and towering height humbles even the mightiest of your people.

   Hero Reborn: You are the spitting image of one of the ancient and revered ancestors. It is said that some Shades do not need Shadewalkers, that they are instead reborn again with their own bodies. The old women have whispered that you are fated towards great and bloody deeds.

   Justice-Maimed: You brought shame and dishonor upon your family, your people, and your ancestor. And now, you've paid for your crime. You survived your trial by endurance, but just barely, and the ordeal has left you a torn man inside.

   Man of the Flesh: You know what is good in life: food, wine, song, and the company of lovers! Let others wave axes about in the snow or wander haplessly about in the forest! They shall miss the finer things in life. You may not be the most imposing or threatening, and perhaps you'll gain a bit of weight from your diversions, but for now you are a bold, handsome, and passionate person with an appreciation for the finer physical things in life.

   Saga-Maimed: It was in the execution of an ancient rivalry between the Peoples when you suffered a severe blow that left you crippled. You are no mere weakling, your friends and family respect you, and your foe suffered greatly, but the injury has cost you greatly.

   Sea Wolf: For centuries the great longships of the Northmen have raided the south, and many of the greatest heroes were not those massive men, but those lean, tough, and utterly ruthless men who sailed the treacherous seas to bring fire and steel to the weak. While you may be less broad and muscular than many others, there is a hardened toughness about you that is evidence of your strength.

   Winterborn: Born on one of the coldest nights, emerging from the womb blue and white from the cold, it is said that you are less than human, your father was the Winter itself. When you enter a room, it seems to get colder around you, fires dim, and people look in fear and awe at you. Thin and lean, you are hungry like winter and death.


Will:

   The Northmen are not only known for their imposing physical presence, but their fierce and indomitable wills demanded by the harsh and uncaring environment in which they live. Hardened by their climate, there is nevertheless a fierce desire to live, one that transcends even death itself.

   Broken Spirit: Perhaps it is a secret that only you know, or worse, everyone knows what it was that broke you. You were a fine, strong person once, gaining the respect and power of your peers, but now you are a shell. Whatever drives the human spirit on has surrendered within you. People either pity you, or are disgusted by you.

   Call of the Wilds: Your friends and families claim you have been claimed by the wilds, that deep within you is the fierce, wild, and single minded will of an animal about you. You are strong, untamed, and utterly fierce.

   Heart of Ice: Some whisper that it is not blood that runs through your veins, but ice water. Others fear that one night you froze to death, your heart turned to ice, but everyone fears to tell you that you are in fact dead. Whatever the speculation, you are exceedingly cool and passionless, and some would say cruel and inhuman. Nothing, good or ill, seems to faze you.

   Living Shade: Your charisma and remarkable personality have won you the respect and loyalty of others and brought you great renown. It is said by the elderly that have seen other heroes become Shades, that you are equally of their caliber, a living Shade and they are honored to have seen such a rare event.

   Proud Line: You hail from a proud line of warriors, reavers, and Shadewalkers. While some clans and families might have more prestigious ancestors, your own family is notable for its strong and dominant personalities that have led the family through countless trials and victories over the centuries.

   Summer's Child: Has the Winter not touched your soul? You are soft and weak, like a summer flower, unlike the great trees that brace against the winter. You are treated with contempt by all around you.

   Thirst for Life: Despite the adversities in your life, you have succeeded where most have failed. You have a rare vitality that drives you ever on, overcoming whatever lies in your path.

   Touch of the First Hero: People are in awe of you, your mere presence inspires acts of greatness, and even other Shades revere you. It is said by the wise women that at birth only a few are touched by the First Hero at birth, and they are destined to lives of glory and praise, remembered until the end of time.

Lore:

   Lore is your knowledge of yourself: who you are and where you hail from. A northman is nothing without a history and honored ancestors to inspire him to great acts of daring. Lore can be a host of details: the ancient art of beer brewing, knowledge of the hero-sagas, a mastery of geography and places sacred to the ancestors, songs popular in the past, the genealogies and lists of names necessary.

   Ancient Secrets: Your families power and influence and control of the dead is unparalleled by most, and feared by all. Few know how it is possible, but the secret has been given to you. An ancient pact or relationship with the ancestors is likely, something terrible. Perhaps everyone in the family is born a twin, and one of them is sacrificed at birth to the dead? Or is it something darker?

   Blood Memory: You needed no words. You were born with the knowledge in your very veins. The dead have always been there with you, and you instinctively sense their presence and know their names. You are the living, but also one of the dead.

   Brotherhood: Not all the Shades are tied by birth-blood to their Shadewalkers. Some of the greatest Heroes were tied together by blood bonds of choice, warrior brotherhoods where ritual exchanges of blood created ties beyond death. You are the member of such a warrior-society and the brotherhood's secrets are yours, and the heroes of the past yours to command.

   Family of Heroes: Your family has an honorable past, one recounted regularly amongst your family. You can recite for days on end the deeds of your ancestors, their travails and accomplishments. Their history is your history, and you are one with the dead.

   Lost Family: Defeat or victory at war, an ecological disaster, or something of the sort may have caused your clan, family, or people to move, losing touch with your family lands. The distance between you and your ancestors has rendered much of your knowledge and power useless, as your ghost-ancestors have become disassociated with your family.

   Occult Experience: There are a great many places of power where ancient spirits linger, places where the forgotten dead await the living. You came upon such a place, by fate or choice, and it is here that you bartered with the dead for their secrets. Who knows what price they ask of you, its best if you don't speak of it to anyone...

   Skald: You are one of the Skalds, chanters, blood-singers, sages, or story-tellers who keep the oral tradition alive. Among the most prestigious of the People, Skalds wield great power and influence, as they control the knowledge. They spend decades learning the sagas of great heroes, poems that take weeks to recite, and songs so old that none know what they actually say.

   Weak Blooded: A shameful history, a young family, or the silvered souls of ancestors are all factors that may weaken a family or clan. There isn't much lore to draw upon since your family has little (or a disgraceful) history or your ancestors are inaccessible or forgotten.

Cover:

   There is no "Cover", instead it is replaced by two things, Your People and Your Lot in Life.

First is your People, whose unique history provides some background. Are they Mammoth-riding hunters? Northmen squatting amidst the ruins of ancient cities? Sea-borne reavers? Guardians of an ancient battleground high in the mountains where clans gather to settle disputes?

   The second is your Lot in Life: what role you fill within your society. Among your people, who you are and what you do? Are you a wise man? An axe maiden? A hunter? A charioteer? A drunkard? A warlord? A feral beastman living on the outskirts of a village?

Price

   Represents something the character has had to sacrifice as a consequence of becoming a Shadewalker or something about them that has changed or transformed as a result of the close tie with the Shade.

   Absolute Power: The power of the Shade has given the character an unrivalled arrogance and bloated sense of power. While everyone fears the Shadewalker, nobody respects the Shadewalker.

   Ancient Enemy: Shades do not forget, and they harbor their rivalries forever. Furthermore, they've had centuries to make new enemies. The Shadewalker, possessed by a notable Shade has earned the undying hatred of a rival people.

   Awed: The Shadewalker is deeply awed by the experience and tends to believe everything the Shade says, as well as going out of his way to please the Shade.

   Exile (Voluntary or Involuntary): The character summoned a Shade that required exile. It could be voluntary, that the Shade demanded the character journey far to accomplish some ancient task. It could be involuntary: the needs of the Shade have outraged the community or the Shadewalker has bound a particularly vicious and cruel Shade that their clan, family, or community abhor.

   Last of the Line: The character is either the last survivor of their line, or murdered their siblings to keep the others from becoming Shadewalkers.

Kickers

   To fit the theme of this game and the feel of the epic, "Kickers" are renamed "Saga Verses", representing a portion of the saga sung by Skalds detailing the life and adventures of this particular Shadewalker.

Minisupplement! Minisupplement!

That's all just too cool not to be published.

Mike

Quote from: Mike HolmesMinisupplement! Minisupplement!

That's all just too cool not to be published.

Straight up!

Word.

Some Further Elaborations

I want this game to work on two levels: the first as a Sword & Sorcery pulp game, like Howard's Frost Giant's Daughter, with ancient enmities, the mystical seasons, blood steaming in the snow, and big axes and swords for that dynamic and exciting feel, yet I also want it to work on a deeper and more profound level, one where mature themes are explored through game play.

The Thematic Introduction

The introduction in the first post (italicized) is what I wrote for myself, to try to capture a sense of loss, a sort of "The Fall of Rome" feel, with civilization and all of its wonders cast down. That conveys the deeper themes of the game, which is essentially about loss and glory.

The Player's Introduction (Not done yet...)

There is a blurb I'm going to write for the players, from the Northmen perspective which is going to have an entirely different perspective and get them excited about it. Rather than about loss, its going to be about blood, glory, and honor. Ancient sagas of their forefathers, they're deity ancestors joining them in righteous battle, the hunting of ancient monsters in haunted forests, angry spirits whispering mad thoughts, secret names and mysteries passed on within lodges, warrior brotherhoods sharing blood, scars, and tattoos, animal familiars and companions, and longships being beached as reavers come ashore with steel and fire. Stuff that stirs the blood... gets the players excited about it.

Once they're in the right mindset, have their ancestor-demons, the Shades with them, then we can explore the consequences of these relationships a bit more deeper. But before I go into that, I want to mention some of my design choices that I've made so far...

Ultimately, I would like for there to be a jarring disconnect between what is mythical and imagined and purported, and how the relationship with the ancestors actually plays out.

The Descriptors

I really wanted intriguing descriptors – everything the players look at early on should be loaded with atmosphere for the game – I don't want any single moment lost with just a generic description. This is a perfect opportunity to convey some of the atmosphere of the world, and in particular its myths, symbols, and metaphors. Competence (and excellence) is stressed in S&S, so it would seem weird to make a character who is "weak" or the like, so I assume that characters are heroic and any weakness they have is related to their past or history, potentially providing back story.

Secondly, I want people looking over the list to not only get an idea for the cultures they hail from, but also to be excited about a number of the descriptors, I want the choice to be a painful one... after all, they are essentially making the first of many choices and I want the importance and the sense of sacrifice to be suggested early on. There is a sort of hierarchy with the scores, but I think that a number of them could be quite appealing.

Your People and Your Lot in Life (Replacing Cover)

Your People is the first element replacing "Cover". I think that Sorcerer, even with relationship maps, tends to build a tightly bounded community (which is fine), but I wanted this game to at least hint at a much broader sense of community, even if it wasn't fully represented in play. Thus Your People serves as an adjective to Your Lot in Life, the latter which is effectively your role and place in your community.

Just as some games, like Gamma World, have you create your own community, in this game, I'd like players to be able to develop their own community while creating their character, and Your People and Lot in Life goes a long way towards developing this. One character might be Black Olaffson, Winter's Reaver (his Lot in Life) of Clan Mortenholm of the Chalk Cliffs (his People), a sea-bound community of raiders feared by Northmen and Southrons alike, another is Katyaaq Katyaaq Siksrikpak, a Sledfolk (People) Scout (Lot in Life), one of the Northern people far to the north who migrate, following the herds in their dog sleds, and it is said that their dogs are as dear to them as their children, while Thegn Olsdvaald, son of Otkell, Shadewalker of Sternving the Hammer of the Ancients and Slayer of the King Osmer, and now Hammerlord of the Southlands and Great Chief (his Lot in Life) of the Hreidhar Nation (his People) lives with his people in the ruins of the conquered and razed Southron city notable for its 1,000 bell towers, most of them tumbled down or buried in snow drifts, they're bells stilled for eternity.

The Price

In my description of the Price, I haven't listed the penalties, because in the player selection process I want the price to be more than just a minus one die penalty in certain situations, I want it to be considered primarily as another contribution to the character, not a mandatory penalty. I don't know if it makes a difference not listing the exact penalty, but to be honest, Last of the Line price seems more interesting than merely stating them that it gives a –1 penalty to some actions, although I would still end up using the penalty, and it would seem to get used a lot as the situation merits.

Saga Verses (was Kickers)

The immediate inspiration is of course inspired by the that famous "Know Ye Oh Princes" blurb or however it goes from Conan, as well as the concept from the original Conan, in which the game you were playing was merely the retelling by a storyteller at a warm fire. It is also inspired by epics and sagas as well.

Rather than just write out the Kicker, the player formats the Kicker as the beginning of a poem, an epic saga, or as a tale recounted by a story teller. If you want it a rhyming poem or something of the sort, even better! The intent here is to get the players into the mindset of telling a story worthy of recounting in an epic manner. I suppose its really just a gimmick, but if it works, or conveys a sense of atmosphere...

Hiya,

My experience suggests that Price is best started as a -1, then let the players tune it as they see fit by introducing goals/oaths. It works tremendously well for the Sword approach. There's really no need to tweak it otherwise - the effect you're hoping for is right there in play, and it develops better in play than it does as a "gee I'm gonna have it be this way" part of character creation.

Best,
Ron

Hm... the more I read the cooler it sounds.

Some of my CoC playing friends just tried the Viking age Cthulhu (don't know if it's out yet, one of them is a playtester for Chaosium so it might have been an advance copy or even a beta... but then it might not) and they basically said it sucked and was lame.

It'd be cool if you make a minisup out of this to point them toward it and see what they think... 'specially if I can convert one or two of 'em to Sorcerer first.

Quote from: Nev the DerangedHm... the more I read the cooler it sounds.

Some of my CoC playing friends just tried the Viking age Cthulhu (don't know if it's out yet, one of them is a playtester for Chaosium so it might have been an advance copy or even a beta... but then it might not) and they basically said it sucked and was lame.

It'd be cool if you make a minisup out of this to point them toward it and see what they think... 'specially if I can convert one or two of 'em to Sorcerer first.

Thanks, but I don't really know much about the mini-supplement program, and I'm not sure if my work is up to par. There's a lot of ideas, but most of them need a lot of adjustment and playtesting... and at just this minute I happen to be a few thousand miles away from my group, so I'm just putting this stuff together when I see them.

Its funny you mention CoC Dark Ages. I had gotten together with my group for one week when I last saw them, and we rolled up Conan characters. It sucked. I told them they were Vanir. Big hairy viking men. I was really excited about the Conan game, but after having read Sorcerer & Sword, I suddenly realized that that 50 dollar game was not what I wanted, and S & S which I bought for four quid at Spitalfields market was a much better deal!

So I started converting these ideas over into S & S, but I'm curious to see how they play out. There's a lot of material I really haven't touched on yet, and I think it might be become I'm less certain of the material - like for example the variations I'm thinking of for women.

One thing I'm really excited about are the idea of clans and peoples. I want players to not only create characters, but to fabricate a clan or society around their character, to really introduce the human element, one that exists in the present and extends into the past, really rooting the character in the humanity element of the game. However, two things make me reluctant to start off on this: The first is Ron's statement on the first page of the book on what is not S&S. "An a priori carefully detailed, mapped, and ethnographically structured made-up world". Now I have no map. History is hazy and subjective and can be made up by players at will "Why, my ancestor Ulnar Stonejaw, Warhird leader of the Red Wolves fought and died at this very spot! I shall contact his spirit!". The part that hangs me up is the "ethnographic" bit. I want a richly detailed group. Not a sketch. Now I don't want to sketch out every aspect of the culture in detail, but creating in conjunction with the players a rich description of their culture does a lot to making the game more interesting - but this may just be my own interest.

Second, since I want characters to create their own cultures, and I've got a lot of ideas, I'm afraid that if I present my ideas to them, they'll take that as the law or as suggestions and it might actually limit their ideas. So I'm thinking about writing up some various culture groups as NPCs or for players who are really, really, really stuck or just drop in. But I think by presenting the information too early, I'll be imposing my own concepts on players and muddying up the focus which should be the characters' own ideas on what their groups are like.

Lastly, where I'm going with female sorcery (since the sorcery above is heavily slanted towards men) is in my opinion a lot weaker, but I do plan on posting in the next couple of days female magic.

Normally, I'm not crazy on giving women their own type of magic, but in retrospect, in pulp literature, women are often given access to strange and alluring powers, and it seems like it might be in the theme of the source material to play along with it. I'm not looking at women as sex-pots or succubi, but as seperate but equally powerful, drawing their magic from a different source in a rational and culturally appropriate manner.

I'll get around to writing it up and throwing ideas out in the next day or two.

Thanks for the kind words, but if you  have an criticism, points of clarification, or any suggestions, do speak up. This isn't an ego trip, I'm curious to see how my ideas can be developed and fleshed out to something more polished than what I have now!

Thanks for taking the time listening to my ramblings!