The Forge Archives

Hey all,

Although it's not 100% complete just yet (more like 85%), I thought I may as well post this up now, seeing as how it will be completely finished in about two days anyways, and what is there is all the rules. All that's left is to tie it all together in a chapter about doing just that by giving an example of play, and a chapter on what to do when everyone's cleared their List.

So anyways, this is a good oppurtunity for me to get people to pick up on stuff that I may have missed and give me suggestions before the fully Official playtest release in a few days/a week. With luck, I will have a website and forum up and running by then, but until then, all comments, suggestions, criticisms, whatever about anything are welcome as always.

So enough of my ramblings, download these:
Scarlet Wake Play-Test Rulebook
Character Sheet

Thanks,
-Ben

I couldn't resist reading the whole thing at work. It's just too cool.

My main thought is that this game is non-traditional enough that there's no reason to aim it at a traditional RPG audience -- or even to describe it as "a roleplaying game" (though it is; but people who like RPGs will recognize it, and people who don't might not realize if you don't tell them, at least not until they've read enough to get hooked). That said, the current draft assumes a fair degree of RPG background, so in order to "go mainstream" you would have to have a very good "how to play section" aimed at novices, tons of good examples, and (my pet peeve) fewer types of dice. But then you could market this as as a kind of party game and go after Tarrentino and Hong Kong action fans who don't know a thing about roleplaying.

Ben, this looks awesome. I'm printing it out so I can take a closer look at it (I hate reading stuff on screen). I'm gonna see if I can get some people together and run this. One thing, though... I love the typewriter-style font, but I can't stand reading it. Ouch! My eyes hurt. I think you'll still get the same feel if all the headlines and such are in that font, but the body copy is something more readable.

Man, I'm having coniptions.  Very, very tight.  This one does have the ability to go mainstream.  Seems simple to pick up and gameplay inspires more of a "party" atmosphere than the usual "sitting around a table throwing dice".  RPGers will know it for what it is, but you could go well beyond the type of players you'd expect to get.

Must....learn....to draw!

That's a nice looking game!  It's neat seeing all the parts fit together like that.  I'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.


CHRIS M.

Quote from: SledgemanThat's a nice looking game!  It's neat seeing all the parts fit together like that.  I'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.


CHRIS M.

Me, too! I see if I can get our Sunday group to try it out.

Wow. It's really great to get all this positive feedback! Thanks guys!

Quote from: SydneyMy main thought is that this game is non-traditional enough that there's no reason to aim it at a traditional RPG audience -- or even to describe it as "a roleplaying game" (though it is; but people who like RPGs will recognize it, and people who don't might not realize if you don't tell them, at least not until they've read enough to get hooked).
...
But then you could market this as as a kind of party game and go after Tarrentino and Hong Kong action fans who don't know a thing about roleplaying.

Quote from: Scott (WyldKarde)This one does have the ability to go mainstream. Seems simple to pick up and gameplay inspires more of a "party" atmosphere than the usual "sitting around a table throwing dice". RPGers will know it for what it is, but you could go well beyond the type of players you'd expect to get.

Thanks! Sounds great! Only one problem: I am crap at marketing. I doubt my ability to sell this to even the most game-hungry RPG addict, even ones who have the money to buy everything in the shop, even ones who love Kill Bill. The reason? I am crap at hype. And AFAIK, 90% of selling something is hype. I give you exhibit A: My RPG.net topic. With a whopping 13 replies, 6 of which are mine, and 3 of which are some guy talking about his own game, I think it's safe to say I suck at hype.

But yeah it would be cool though huh.

Quote from: Andrew MorrisOne thing, though... I love the typewriter-style font, but I can't stand reading it. Ouch! My eyes hurt. I think you'll still get the same feel if all the headlines and such are in that font, but the body copy is something more readable.

You shoulda seen the serial killer scrawl I really wanted to use instead! But in the end I had to compromise between readability and colour (or color, for all you crazy americans). If anyone else has a problem with the font I'll change it to something cleaner.

Quote from: Andrew MorrisI'm printing it out so I can take a closer look at it (I hate reading stuff on screen). I'm gonna see if I can get some people together and run this.

Quote from: SledgemanI'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.

Quote from: Andrew MartinMe, too! I see if I can get our Sunday group to try it out.

Awesome! Thanks guys. Let me know how it all goes. I'll try to get a forum up and running ASAP, just gotta finish the rulebook first.

Also, let me know if there's any problems with printing it too. I don't have a printer so I can't test things myself.

Quote from: SydneyThat said, the current draft assumes a fair degree of RPG background, so in order to "go mainstream" you would have to have a very good "how to play section" aimed at novices, tons of good examples, and (my pet peeve) fewer types of dice.

Yeah, good point, I might do a total re-write for the final version. As it stands now though, I think anyone who playtests this thing will be fine, so it'll do for the play-test.

As for the die types, I'm kinda playing with the idea of replacing that with all rolls being Xd6, where X is the number of stats involved in the action, and having all the stats simply add to the roll like modifiers. My only problems with this idea are that it becomes way too predictable, and Peons become fantastically easy. It would also somewhat reduce the effectiveness of Fire, where as it is now, two Fire stats of 5 give you 2d12, but if I made these changes it would only give you +10. I think mathematically for the purposes of this game, multiple die types are better. But feel free to try it with only one die type and let me know how it works.

Thanks,
-Ben

Hi, Ben.

Quote from: RavienAlso, let me know if there's any problems with printing it too. I don't have a printer so I can't test things myself.

I printed out the rules and character sheet on a 300DPI laser, HP LaserJet 4L. The rules seemed reasonable (printing-wise). The character sheet (I printed 6 copies) was too "faded". The red writing gets changed to a sort of faded grey pattern, which is harder to read. I think that the writing should be in black, with the borders of the sheet like blood dripping off a blade's edge.

I wasn't able to interest my Sunday group in the game at the moment, they prefer to do my legendary heroes and gods game (Samsara) tomorrow, as they enjoyed the previous week's game. Wargames convention next weekend, so I'll try again in a fortnight.

Color me impressed.  I think I'll try to get a session of this one in too.  I agree that the font is a little much.

Good Work, get it together and sell the sucker.  Hell Wushu sells for 5 bucks.

Trevis

I think the color of the document itself -- especially if worked on furhter still -- should be good advertisement in itself, if your can just show it to people.  Anyway, if you post in Publishing, I bet there are some people who could give you good advice on marketing.

Oh, I too agree that the body font if difficult to read.  It would certainly be less colorful without it, but maybe you cna find some other font that is unique and which has a similar style, but which flows better -- maybe just a slightly less rough typeriter-style font.

Ok, today I managed to get my Scarlet Wake forum up and running (feel free to join :) ), took care of the font issue by replacing it with a cleaner and easier to read one, and managed to slog through the first half of chapter 7. I've updated the rulebook pdf just now, so anyone who wants to can download this latest but as-yet-oh-so-near-completion version. Tomorrow I plan on finishing the whole book, then maybe finding time for a front-end website for the forum. Fingers crossed.

Quote from: Andrew MartinThe character sheet (I printed 6 copies) was too "faded". The red writing gets changed to a sort of faded grey pattern, which is harder to read. I think that the writing should be in black, with the borders of the sheet like blood dripping off a blade's edge.

Hmmm, that's no good. And weird. If I find time tomorrow I'll have to redo the character sheet, see if I can't make it work proper. Thanks for the headsup. Also, thanks for the suggestions, will give them a go. The only reason I had the text as grey was to make it easier to see what you actually write on it, as opposed to having to hunt for your pencil-marks amidst loads of black text. But I'll take your suggestion I think.

Quote from: Andrew MartinI wasn't able to interest my Sunday group in the game at the moment, they prefer to do my legendary heroes and gods game (Samsara) tomorrow, as they enjoyed the previous week's game. Wargames convention next weekend, so I'll try again in a fortnight.

Cool, thanks for trying, appreciated.

Quote from: JasperI think the color of the document itself -- especially if worked on furhter still -- should be good advertisement in itself, if your can just show it to people. Anyway, if you post in Publishing, I bet there are some people who could give you good advice on marketing.

Well, I'ma give the website my best shot, and see if that can attract people's interests, and then maybe they'll download it, and then maybe the overall design will keep them interested in it. AFAIK, once you get a good player base from a play-test, and there is relatively decent awareness about the game, it becomes a lot easier to sell it once the play-test is over. The full finished version will no doubt be a lot prettier with lot's more pretty pictures and junk, so combined with the refinements of playtesting, it should be a worthy purchase. At least, that's the plan. But I'll also take your advice and post in Publishing, see if I can't leech from the collective conscious of the forge some more :)

Quote from: Trevis MartinColor me impressed. I think I'll try to get a session of this one in too.

Thanks! If you manage to get some friends together to play this, I invite you to join my forum (see link above). In fact, I invite you anyway! I invite everyone! *histerical laughter fades into the distance*

Thanks,
-Ben

While Outatowners is in rewrite, I got my group running this.  I'll tell you what we came back with.  We'll play for fun saturday, then play to break it on sunday.  I'll hit you up with the resuts on your forum.

Quote from: RavienI am crap at marketing. I doubt my ability to sell this to even the most game-hungry RPG addict, even ones who have the money to buy everything in the shop, even ones who love Kill Bill. The reason? I am crap at hype...

Screw hype. Look at the response you've gotten on this forum. Admittedly we're weird, deviant people who like to tinker with rules mechanics for fun, but still, "build it and they will come" -- a good enough product will attract attention with minimal marketing; it just takes longer.

Quote from: Sydney Freedberg... a good enough product will attract attention with minimal marketing; it just takes longer.

Yes. This marketing strategy always works. Build a quality product and make it available for sale; the people who buy it, will tell their friends to buy it as well. There's no better or cheaper salesperson than a friend who uses the product. And there's no need for marketing or advertising expenses, "hoping" or bribing people for "good" reviews, or trying to "hide" or discount poor reviews.

QuoteBuild a quality product and make it available for sale; the people who buy it, will tell their friends to buy it as well. There's no better or cheaper salesperson than a friend who uses the product. And there's no need for marketing or advertising expenses, "hoping" or bribing people for "good" reviews, or trying to "hide" or discount poor reviews.

I totally agree that the people who buy it are your best advertisers.  Just about every game I've ever really enjoyed I found out about through a friend (Deadlands is the exception--I read about that in InQuest).

That said, don't not promote your product.  =-)  You don't necessarily have to go overboard, but do make an effort to get the word out--even if it's just a few little cheap things here or there.  You've got an excellent product brewing...believe in it!

CHRIS M.