The Forge Archives

This summer social commitents and work kept my game shedule at an all time low. Then this game happened and it was at first to painful to post, I threw the ball around a bit with my players and we gradually worked our way out of the rut. So I figured I'd share some of the experience with you.

Part one of Three
Breaking of the Fellowship

This was a contiuation of the game illustrated here and here. I've spent too much bandwith describing my players and their motivation so I wont.

I had a full group for once, and we were all fired up. I though I had nailed down our CA and that my group understood it too as a part of our SC. I made an assumption, and assumptions are as we all know the mother of all fuck ups.

What I assumed was our was our CA was: The end of the third age is coming, war is on the horizon and you will portray the heroes who make the valiant stand against the enchroaching darkness.

And I futher assumed they all remembered the SC that worked so wonderfuully above, namely: You know our CA, you know this game is about the virtues so please try to push your characters in that direction.

As you will see below I made a few basic mistakes.

Our heroes had restored the Shrine of Compassion, and the next day went to face the Cardinal of Miranna whose plans they had countered. As Gorin, Liam and Joshua faced the scarlet clad Iron Guards Tengel timely arrived with the personal guard of the High priest of Miranna, and the heroes where whisked to Calen Pellen, where civil war was about to break out.

At the ford of Calen Pellen they managed to prevent hostilities by horseback diplomacy between the King and the once loyal Duke Berendur. Where the war at first had been about taxes the heroes learned that the conflict was about two men, who both blamed the other for kidnapping their common Grandsson. Asking for time to locate the widowed Princess and the future Crown prince, they were given until the end of summer before the two armies would join in battle.

At this stage as was flowing smoothly. Ole Morten, who through bad player judgment now has his character doomed to die a futile death and been labelled the new dwarfish word for foolishness, shone here. Suddenly his character was the diplomat and the perceptive one. It was a joy to watch. Unfortunately I had not noticed that Espen (who had been absent the past four or five games) was stuck out in the periphery, with little to tie both him and his character Calem to the plot.

Travelling to the valley where the Princess' escort was found butchered, the perceptive Liam found an old dwarven path leading through an ancient mine. Sending the horses to hide with the squire James, they learned that some mysterious assailant was following them. Facing this assilant in the forest resulted in two bloody wounds and nothing but a few dead leaves. Spooked they brought their horses into the mines.

At the heart of the mine, in a hall whose roof had been torn open, and before the doors to the restning place of the dragon Gostiaur, The tyrant of Ram Mithren, they met the assailant. Slaying his black, elven steed to prevent his escape Joshua found himself singled out by the shadow tainted elf's murderous rage. Avoiding the blades that had cut down his companions Joshua got within dagger range and cut the deadly assassin down.

Peri, Joshua's player had discovered what I long had dreaded, knife fighting in BW. Everyone around the table (including me) assumed the Joshua would die a swift and gory death. Instead he "outsmarted" me, and got a very sweet victory.

Hearing cries of pain and lament from behind, our heroes learned that the Shadow sworn elf was not alone. Hurrying they came through the tunnels and out into a valley. Pushing onwards they reached a small village where they spent the night. Haunted by an eerie lament the six learned that indeed a woman had been brought to the local church, where she gave birth to a son. She was escorted by mysterious men-at-arms. But she was no longer with them, for she had been taken to the Lonely Keep by Lord Ingebras, who had driven off the mercenary men-at-arms. Lord Ingebras, they were told, was the most virtuous knight in all of Miranna and she would be safe there.

Here I began to slip up. Although it all took about four paragraphs, this sequence took four hours of game-time, mainly because of an hour long discussion on the topic of  whether to bring the horses into the tunnel or not. But also because I, through NPCs, and the other players put pressure on Christian to lead with Tengel, which Christian confessed later he didn't feel up to this session. This would come to a head in the final chapter. So as we moved on I lacked focus internally in the group and a "filler" mentality had begun to set in.

Agreeing to hide the true nature of their quest from Lord Ingebras and claim to be travellers seeking the virtues, they rode to the Lonely Keep. Then upon meeting the noble and welcoming Lord Ingebras Sir Tengel proclaimed they sought out the crown prince and his mother. Sceptical despite royal and church seals Ingebras brought the six heroes before the Widow. But he would not release her from his care to be used as a chess piece by her father or her father in law in the coming war. A discussion begun and it grew heated, leading to Tengel calling Ingebras a traitor.

When Christian threw the original planned stealth and threw it out the window the group was upset. Yet this was seen as a "Locklear" and those things are known to happen. But could not compare to their reaction to what came next.

Tengels words questioned sir Ingebras' honour and the Lord rose to the challenge and the duel was fought. To the death.

Here the rest of the players got out of their seats, paced the room and the questions thrown at Christian was both IC and OOC, and can be summarised such:" what the fuck are you doing?"
Christian on the other hand was convinced he was doing the right thing (and will to this day say the same). The net effect was that the mood crashed and what had been fun took a too serious tone. It didn't get better. As I piled trouble on them.

Though Ingebras was a skilled and virtuous knight, neither his skill nor armour was up to the task of defeating Tengel, whose skill and blade cut down the Lord of Lonely Keep.

As the men-at-arms sent word to the lord's son and carried the broken lord to the chapel. Our heroes went to get the Widow to pack. Unbeknownst to them the wards that had protected the keep fell when its Lord fell, and the brothers of the Shadow sworn elf walked into the keep. Luring the heroes out they rushed in to steal away the crown prince. Leaving the mocking words, "We would avenge our brother but you have done us too great a service to go unrewarded, " floating on the wind.

Joshua tackled and killed one elf with his knives, while his compatriots ran to save the future and peace of Miranna. First to reach the royal bedroom was Calem, who unleashed White Fire on the Shadow sworn Assassin. Burning the assassin to ashes.  Drunk on newly learned power Calem ignored the burden in the assassin's arms, the young crown prince, scarring the young child with heat from his magical attack.

In the silent aftermath, when the Princess bundeled up her child and her few belongings the party gathered in the courtyard. Gorin asked for their attention and proclaimed that his path no longer lay with the this band. He would leave them to think, and that his part of this crusade was over.

He grabbed his pack and walked out the gate, Liam walking him that far, but then the dwarf walked away, alone.

And on that sad note our tale ended.

We were all stunned. I think even Jon, who played Gorin, was stunned. Later he said it was just the right thing to do for Gorin and that he no longer saw how Gorin could spend time with a group of men so contrary to all he stood for.

The already bad mood now resoundedly crashed. The entusiasm and joy we had had so far had become sour. In retrospect it should be flattering that my players have invested so much in the games world and the CA that they grow upset when something causes their side to loose. But like Christian pointed out, it is just a fucking game. It got too serious.

So what went wrong.

Firstly I didn't discuss neither CA or SC with my players beforehand, I assumed they where on the same level as me.
We played too long. I should have quit when I felt my control (as in screen-time control) was slipping. Or at least taken a break.
And I forgot about including my players motivation. I assumed it was the same, but for Espen the above became filler, and thus he no longer cared about the consequences of his spell casting. Christian wasn't in the mood for deeply political game just wanting to kill something (simplyfied!) and the three that previously had worked so swimmingly fell a bit on the backburner as I failed to bring the other two in. Ole Morten was then by default left to worry about those annoying horses.

It was a potential game breaker.

Christian talked about leaving the game, it had gotten too serious for him and he felt that he had "broken" Tengel. That he had played him so wrong that there was no way he could enjoy playing him again.

Jon desperatly wanted to play more, but he just felt it dramatically right for Gorin to "retire". Elswhere it would have been beautifull, but here it compunded Christian's percieved guilt for ruining the game.

Christer no longer saw how Liam could remain with the group, now that his only true friend left. And that his character already mindful of the "sir Noble" complex really just needed one more drop in his full cup before he would up and leave aswell.

Espen moaned that he never got to use his magical powers and that he never got to unleash the truly cool spells. He had forgotten CA and turned it into a powertrip for his character. Didn't help.

Peri and Ole Morten were happy, irritated about their loss, and the way it happened, but neither saw no big problem.

And me blamed myself for all of the above. It looked bleak for my campaign.

It got better the next game, but even this wasn't a complete fix. But until then I'll just tease you with that title :"A Matter of Family Honour"

I'll preface this by saying that I'm a bit of a nut as a GM, but I think your session sounded great!

Ok, not all the players were happy, but the overarching drama sounded very intense and, well, right.

The issue here, I guess, is that the players' emotions are tied up in horrible things their characters did. But none of them felt railroaded, right? I assume, from what you're telling us, that they all felt they had a hand in creating and resolving the situation, right?

I've had the same thing happen before in my games -- it gets too intense and the "adventuring party" shell falls away in the face of some real and powerful emotions. Personally, I recommend you talk to your players about what happened. Then I'd ask them what they want to do and pick up the story from a different angle -- different characters, different story arc, same world.

Christian seems to be at the toughest point. I'd talk to him in private about what happens and what he wants to do with the game in general and Tengel in specific. Personally, I love playing out the aftermath of such great changes in a character, but perhaps Christian has realized his (unforeseen) goals with the character and it's time to move on.


Lastly, it sounds like you're not challenging your players enough in the martial contests. Don't go easy on them!

-L

Hello,

I have a slightly different take on this than Luke, although we are both coming from the "player has full thematic rights over his character" camp of play-preferences.

I think Christian is facing a very troublesome situtation - he did play his character will full freedom, but he didn't contribute to his friends' fun, or ultimately to his own.

Why?

All of the following is totally armchair supposing, so please filter it through your own knowledge of the people involved. Maybe none of it will make it through the filter, for all I know.

When a person is involved in a very intense, character-centered game such as yours, especially with a GM like yourself (and me!) who really cares about setting up problematic and atmospheric situations ...

... and when that person feels under-appreciated or under-attended by the others at the table (perhaps they don't see how "cool" his character could be, or perhaps they don't acknowledge what conflicts the character might represent) ...

... then that person very often switches into a form of play which is best described as "defiant." His character does things which seem almost batshit-psycho, and even though he (the person) can see it disrupting things ... there's a little piece of him which actually needs to disrupt things, as a form of protest or plea for recognition.

Ever see someone sort of "lose it" during a competitive game and get mad over something trivial? He can't let go of the conflict he's just generated, and yet he's also full of shame because he really did come to play and to have a good time with everyone. He blames the others, yet also feels bad because he's the one who seems to be causing the problem. Everyone else feels bad too, in a weird combination of getting frustrated with the person and also wanting to include him in the group too.

So my conclusion, or suggestion anyway, is to recognize that Christian may have felt threatened or pressured about how to play his character. His response, which seems like it was simmering ever since the "horses in the tunnel" discussion, was to say, "You want to see who controls this character? I'll show you!"

Does any of that seem to fit?

Best,
Ron

If you had just posted the "play" part I would have thought everyone had a great time.  You guys are having the kind of game I long for, yet some aren't enjoying it.  

I've seen the behavior Ron describes.  If that applies, then maybe all you need is a little Social Contract work -- the troubling bit is that if Christian didn't feel like being the lead he also apparently did not feel like he could express that until after the game.  He needs the freedom to express that in the game.  

QuoteThat he had played him so wrong that there was no way he could enjoy playing him again.

Redemption story!  He's in the belly of the whale, now can he fight his way back?  What can he do for the wife and child of the man he slew?

Think Christian would go for that?

Also, might a discussion about player versus character be in order?  It sounds like maybe some people are identiying too closely with their characters, which might be why Christian didn't feel like he could "let the group down".

-- Nick

Thanks for the feedback.

One of the best things I learned here at the Forge is just what you all say : Talk to your players.

I have and all is well now. This post was to tell you about the game that went wrong, (my two next will be about the fix). It has taken so long because my players read these posts and I just found this a bit too raw to post it until we had worked out the kinks.

Quote from: AbzuBut none of them felt railroaded, right? I assume, from what you're telling us, that they all felt they had a hand in creating and resolving the situation, right?

Right on both accounts, I think the game-breaker was that they got so wrapped up in the situation, that a win for them became very important, so important that they got irritated with Christian, not Tengel his fictional alter ego.

What didn't help was that everyone (except yours truly) was hung over and it was very late/early. I spoke to Christian and it turned out the two above, combined with some real life issues just didn't make him feel up to a serious game. He wanted to have fun without having to think about it. Here I failed him, because I had gotten so wrapped up into my "theme based" gaming that I forgot to listen to my players.

I did after the game though.

Quote from: abzuLastly, it sounds like you're not challenging your players enough in the martial contests. Don't go easy on them!

Ask my players about this Luke ;).
The fight with Lord Ingebras was pretty much a forgone conclusion. Tengel (b7) with a VA 3 sword against Ingebras (b6) superior VA 2 sword. Tengel also had more artha.
As long as he didn't fuck up he would win the war of attrition.

Ron,

for once nothing passed through the filter. I've grown up with players like the one you described, and Christian isn't. The whole "horses in the tunnel" discussion was intiated by Ole Morten, who went against the groups concensus (it turned out that all he wanted was to bring the torches he had on his horse - thus the exasperation). Both Christer, Peri and me tried to put pressure on Christian (the other noble and def-facto party leader), who for the reasons above didn't want this role that night.

I am afraid that what I did here was what "ruined" the game for Christian, and his actions from here out was coloured by his increasing frustration. Like he said, he just wanted to kill something and go home.

Quote from: Ron"player has full thematic rights over his character" camp of play-preferences.

I am in the same camp as you guys, we've just added a caveat here: That we are communally generating the Chronicle of the Third Age and thus you as a player are responisble for fitting your character into the thematic guidlines put down by me. Make sense?

Quote from:  NickRedemption story! He's in the belly of the whale, now can he fight his way back?

Just what we did. Christian wasn't as much concerned with the in-game consequences of his "mistake" but rather the fact that to him Tengel didn't feel right anymore. If he had retired Tengel, so soon after Gorin's retirement, the Heroes would have unravelled and the campaign might not have recovered.
So I had to redeem Tengel in Christians eyes.

You think this is getting complicated. Just wait 'till I tell you about the issues that arose in Family Honour

K