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Okay, I was thinking last night about a campaign I've wanted to run for a very long time. In essence, it's the same "turf" as the World of Darkness: Mythic creatures in the modern day. However, I wanted to hew closer to the Sonja Blue series, to add what the World of Darkness, especially as it is currently (over) expanded lacks: a sense of wonder and exploration (in the sense of the original English word, not as in the GNS essay).

I wanted a very Simulationist game that focused on extreme personalities, grittiness, and creating the world as you went. I wanted, however, to be a framework for people to hang stuff onto. So I tried to define some of the setting, and leave the rest up to the GM and the players. The question is: Too much? Too little? Am I approaching it the right way?

Let me know what you think. For this thread, I only want comments on the setting. You'll only need to read the very early parts of this very-much-a-draft version of the game:

http://ivanhoeunbound.com/pretender.html

I'm particularly concerned if people think 1985 is a good time for what I'm talking about. Obviously, flavor-inducing quotes and art will come later. People who remember the RPG Nightlife will have an idea where I'm going here.

I think the later 80's (which was a boom time for horror, given yuppies, AIDS, crack cocaine, subway vigilantes, the homeless "epidemic", gangs,  the Reagan and Thatcher administrations, hair gel and mousse overdosing, etc.) would be a perfect time for this game. At this time, horror fiction in general moved away from being about horror and read more like action movies with supernatural elements. Slasher movies came into their own as a subgenre of horror. There was also a severe lack of compassion rampant, as the entertainment industry refocused on "bad guys evil, good guys saintly." Shallowness and glitter was everywhere you looked, laid on thick like spackling to cover up the looming ugliness. In short, horror became a photonegative version of "Miami Vice."  

As you can tell, I came of age in that decade. In general, it blew.

As for the setting, character limitations, etc.: more examples. Almost never, in a game with the setting this open, can you have too many examples. You might want to list some other monsters besides vampires (although they were HUGE in the 80's, wonder why?) like: vengeful dead, mannequins coming to life during the night, mutants created from nearby toxic dumps, creatures that look and act like psychopathic children, but aren't quite human, etc. Your sentient roach-colony guy was a good step in that direction.

Generally, add everything that annoys you (and those who bother to input anything into this game) about the 80's into the background. There's just so much stuff to draw from!

Well, I chose 1985 to straddle the decade, so we can have the best (read: worst) of both ends of the decade.

1985 marks my earliest teen years. I was born in 1972 -- you do the math.

What about the 80s do you think I need to mention that I haven't?

As for examples, well, if I were going to release this game as a PDF, I'd have a bunch of examples in the back -- including SEVERAL different takes on vampires, werewelves, and ghosts. Right now, I have no plans to do that -- this was in essence me taking a break from Unsung. But if people seem to dig it, I might expand it more.

I have, however, mentioned a couple of your examples in the chargen section now.

http://ivanhoeunbound.com/pretender.html

Also, I'd like to do some old-skool White Wolf style quotations before before some of the sections. Suggestions as to quotes would be welcome. Art suggestions are welcome as well.

I think the setting is fine. You could probably include some more stuff of a general nature, to give more ideas to folks playing. But you have a relatively modern setting. As with all such settings, you really have presented a lot to the players, and they'll easily figure the setting part out.

But here's the big problem. What do you do in this game? From what I can see, it's stand around in bars looking cool, acti on impulses from extreme personality, and occasionally encounter some enemies and grapple with them. Is that unified compellingly enough to motivate people to play? I suggest that you incorporate more on how to tweak the setting such that the group starts out not only unified, but in some Situation. Or other method of galvanizing the idea of what to do in the player's minds. Otherwise I'm pretty sure that the 80's (which I personally had no problems with) is going to be a relatively sterile environment to explore.

Mike

Quote from: Mike HolmesBut here's the big problem. What do you do in this game? From what I can see, it's stand around in bars looking cool, acti on impulses from extreme personality, and occasionally encounter some enemies and grapple with them. Is that unified compellingly enough to motivate people to play?

Well, the cynical answer is: "Haven't you ever been to a Vampire LARP?"

That's not fair, however, though what you describe very much is the focus of the game -- chewing scenery and looking cool. The violence is just another excuse to look cool.

However, you do have a point:

QuoteI suggest that you incorporate more on how to tweak the setting such that the group starts out not only unified, but in some Situation. Or other method of galvanizing the idea of what to do in the player's minds. Otherwise I'm pretty sure that the 80's (which I personally had no problems with) is going to be a relatively sterile environment to explore.

Not a bad idea, I'll add some verbiage to this effect. Also, I'll add a bit in the about how even without your Enemies, other supernaturals are going to mess with you and try to use you for their own agenda, as that's an important part of the genre, and the assumed Situation.

Quote from: xiombargWell, the cynical answer is: "Haven't you ever been to a Vampire LARP?"

And the even more cynical answer to the question your answer poses is, "Yes, and thank you for making my point."

QuoteThat's not fair, however, though what you describe very much is the focus of the game -- chewing scenery and looking cool. The violence is just another excuse to look cool.

Just doesn't quite seem enough to explore. Perhaps for a one-shot.

QuoteNot a bad idea, I'll add some verbiage to this effect. Also, I'll add a bit in the about how even without your Enemies, other supernaturals are going to mess with you and try to use you for their own agenda, as that's an important part of the genre, and the assumed Situation.

I think you need to greatly expand on these ideas. To the extent of even maybe a sample "adventure" so that GMs know what the appropriate sort of conflicts to insert are.

You should also mention, generically, stuff like Lairs, Haunts, Territories. Etc. And suggestions for fun sorts of things that factions can fight over.

Mike

Quote

Quote from: xiombargWell, the cynical answer is: "Haven't you ever been to a Vampire LARP?"

And the even more cynical answer to the question your answer poses is, "Yes, and thank you for making my point."

Touche. ;-D

Quote

QuoteThat's not fair, however, though what you describe very much is the focus of the game -- chewing scenery and looking cool. The violence is just another excuse to look cool.

Just doesn't quite seem enough to explore. Perhaps for a one-shot.

YMMV, of course. I sort of see this as an excuse to explore and define the world as the PCs tear their way through it. It's almost a form of Pawn stance, but more Simulationist than Gamist.

QuoteI think you need to greatly expand on these ideas. To the extent of even maybe a sample "adventure" so that GMs know what the appropriate sort of conflicts to insert are.

I've added a few paragraphs in the "Link Everyone" section, I think it's a bit closer to what you want. Let me know.

QuoteYou should also mention, generically, stuff like Lairs, Haunts, Territories. Etc. And suggestions for fun sorts of things that factions can fight over.

Cool, I've done that as well. Check out the aforementioned "Link Everyone" section, and the "Your World" section, which I've expanded a bit.

Regardless, I really appreciate the fast feedback.

http://ivanhoeunbound.com/pretender.html