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Hi gang, every so often here on this forum there is a discussion about how Toughness and armor are used in combat, and optional or alternative rules or ideas are offered up and debated.  Lately, I've been reading over the rules for a game by Luke Crane called The Burning Wheel.  It also has a forum here on the Forge.

This game has given me some ideas for some rule tweaks with TRoS that mostly have to do with the Toughness score and how the armour rules can be slightly modified to account for layering and piecemeal garments.  I've written these rules up and have converted them into a pdf, but they are over four pages long.  Because of this, I've decided not to bore the majority of you with them here, and instead just let you know that I will give them out via email to any one who asks for a copy.  I can either be reached by pm or through the email address below and thanks.

I've got a copy, and for those who like some of the things you can get from added complexity (like myself), it's good stuff.

Mike

Thanks for the indorsement, Mike.

How about sending me one...

Jake

It will be on its way tonight when I get home from work, Jake.

Yeah, I would be interested to see it.

bleybourne@hotmail.com

Brian.

I just read over Tony's alteration suggestions and  I'm a bit unclear on how damage is actually done.

Is this right? Jake hits Luke with his Boffer Sword of Death.
Luke has a (Health 3, Toughness 3) MW of 6, Tr 5, Se 4, Mi 3, Li 2.

Jake has a Strength of 4 and the Boffer Sword of Death  has a Strength of 2. So after he hits me has to roll for damage? ::shudder:: He would roll 4 dice (his strength) at TN 5? And get two successes, which would be a Light Wound/Level 1 Wound?

-L

In TROS, weapons have a Damage Rating or DR.  How it works in my purposed rules is that let's say Jake's sword or death has a cutting DR of ST + 1.  If jake hits you (i.e. more successes than you), then he would roll 4d10 (his ST is 4) with a Target Number or TN of 5.  The "5" is based on the DR of the weapon used; if it were just ST, then it would have been a TN of 6.  The number of successes rolled is added to the margin of successes obtained in the initial swing to determine the total damage.  You also have to determine how much is stopped by the armor worn over the location hit.

hi tony,

i understand the concepts now. The one thing I am leery about is the roll to hit/roll for damage mechanic. Both BW and ROS have fairly elegant "one roll" mechanic. Is there anyway to incorporate that?

And, btw, these rules have very, very little to do with BW itself. They are really just a tweak for ROS. So if you're reading this, they are worth checking out even if you don't know BW.

-L

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your question, Luke.  I went on vacation last week and just got back with the family late last night.

Quote from: abzu...one thing I am leery about is the roll to hit/roll for damage mechanic. Both BW and ROS have fairly elegant "one roll" mechanic. Is there anyway to incorporate that?

I'm sorry, but no, not really.  The way TRoS currently works, I feel, is great for normal man-sized humanoids with attributes within the normal range of 1 to 10.  What I was attempting to do was to make it a little more player friendly when combating bigger opponents such as Trolls, Giants, and Dragons.  With the rules unchanged, when a giant with a ST of 20 hits you, you ARE dead meat.  What I was trying to get is a system where you will probably be dead meat.

The TO rules in combat also work this way.  If you are fighting a really big baddy with a TO of 13, chances are you can hit him all day and never put a scratch on him.  I was just trying to allow for that single arrow shot through the heart without having to create a PC who has an SA to vanquish that particular type of creature.  In doing so, more dice have to be dropped.  I am currently re-reading over those TRoS adoptive rules for BW that Claymore wrote up on the BW section of the Forge to see if maybe those might do a better job of what I want to see.

Quote from: abzuAnd, btw, these rules have very, very little to do with BW itself. They are really just a tweak for ROS. So if you're reading this, they are worth checking out even if you don't know BW.

The things that I took from BW are the PTGS and the defender rolling for their armor protection, though that's obviously not exactly the way BW does it.

I read reviews of Burning Wheel, and keep seeing its name come up over and over, and the jury is still out on whether I'd want to get it or not. After all this time, I still dont have a really clear picture of it. :/

I think the price is around $20 w/ S&H and you get two books.  Both books are Perfect Bound and are just done in black and white with very little artwork, but artwork is not something I'm looking for in an RPG (unlike some little trolls around here;-).  The first book is the rule book, The Burning Wheel Fantasy Roleplaying Game, and it's 238 pages.  The second book, The Burning Wheel Character Burner is for the players and takes them on a step-by-step process to generate a character.  It contains 225 pages.

One thing off the top of my head that I think you'd like about it, Morfedel, are the magic systems.  There are acts of faith and sorcery in the main rule book, but at the website, there is a huge write-up on The Art of Summoning that sounds a lot like Ron Edwards' Sorcerer (though I must admit that I don't have a copy of that game YET), and another write-up on Abstraction that has a very strong Ars Magica feel to it.

If you want to read more about the game, I did a very short write-up on it HERE on the HârnForum, and I'd also recommend checking out Luke Crane's website, www.burningwheel.org.

One more thing, over at the Burning Wheel section of the Forge, there is a post that contains some excellant rules on importing TRoS's combat style to The Burning Wheel.  You can check that out HERE.