The Forge Archives

in the http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9153">"thinking, talking, gaming" thread I've discussed gaming issues with comix (well, not so much sequential and hardly art, but you get the idea) - and I'd like to know what people think of the idea

important question: what is the moderators' take on linking graphics directly into posts? - I've erred on the side of being overcautious: warning that a thread contains graphics, noting file size and format, keeping file size down (although the saving of 1-bit over 8-bit in PNG is only 30% on a <5k scale, you can be prettier and not a pain in the neck) and noting that the I expect the target files to eventually move/be deleted

(I download threads & websites to text to read at home in DOS, so I'm sensitive to graphics issues)

in an ideal world I'd provide hyperlinks to comix essays, but it still might be worthwhile to "quote" pictures in a thread

a brief personal intro to non-fiction comix, with links: I can't remember which I read first, Maus (art spiegelman's comix-format biography of his father in nazi germany) or Understanding Comics (http://www.scottmccloud.com/">scott mccloud's analysis of comix as a medium), but it was these two books that opened my eyes to the potential of the medium, and I've since taken much more interest in autobiographical and other non-fiction and arty comix (and discovered a publisher devoted to the stuff, http://www.drawnandquarterly.com/">Drawn & Quarterly) rather than fantasy/superhero stuff (barring http://www.neilgaiman.com/">Sandman :) - this year I also got hold of the great(*) will eisner's Comics & Sequential Art(**) which was instructional (but, if you're interested, not in a step-by-step kind of way)

(*) scott mccloud has a reputation as a comix guru, and he thinks eisner is da bomb, nuff said

(**) still saving for the companion, Graphic Storytelling & Visual Narrative

anyway, the point is that comix have already been ably used for non-fiction and tutorial/demonstration purposes, and I'd like to know what specific issues need to be tackled to use them in the gaming/gaming theory context (obviously particular icons will have to be thought up for particular projects) - these could be from the gaming/theory perspective (see some cases I've thought of below) or from the comix perspective (eg, use of the gutter when demonstrating play examples, frames and player/character seperation...)

case 1: what actually happens (non-abstract) at a gaming table: this is pretty straightforward & mostly representational and would be used, for example, to demonstrate basics to beginners or variants to more experienced players (I think the one-sided gaming table ala Knights of the Dinner Table is an elegant & useful representation in this category)

case 2: what actually happens (abstract): this is what I've done in "thinking, talking, gaming" - I think the bubbles-with-arrows is a pretty straightforward symbol for information-flow/influence - what other actual but abstract issues might be tackled? IEEE?

case 3: the box model (ron's model): back when I first had this idea my first thought was to characterise and thence explain G, N & S, but I never came up with suitably iconic characters, maybe characters aren't the way to go for Creative Agendas - once we start looking at more theoretical issues the question is whether to stick with actual-representational diagrams, or dabble in the abstract-iconic realm - I do think it's worth looking at the latter, but one needs to be careful with icon choices to assist and not confound

the venn diagram - ron, I'd love to see a diagram rather than text representation of the box model - I've sketched out actual venn diagrams for myself with ephemera as units and the rest as sets, which is astoundingly useful (to me anyway) - but I'd like to see exactly how you draw the Creative Agenda arrow, an arrow between sets, an arrow-shaped set? maybe this will be profound, maybe not

case 4: game-based fiction: basically, Color - see various White Wolf products, the Trollbabe comics - with the (enthuse enthuse) capabilities of the medium this is a great way to create a feel for the game, demonstrating look, vibe, events, characters, setting, etc as a whole piece - establishing individual imaginings that are more consistent between players, to build on my thoughts in the other thread

similarly, useful for one-sheets?

the cautions are the same as for fiction in other mediums, basically making sure the fiction facilitates the game (eg, no narrative that can't be achieved in the game, no damn loner characters when it's a party-orientated game)

the difficulty is in finding the time to draw the damn things

Hiya,

I'll present a substantive response to this material later, David, but for now, I'm posting only for moderator purposes.

Let's not include diagrams and graphics in Forge posts. Sometimes, small ones are helpful, but the tendency is for further posts to include bigger and bigger ones). I'd much rather prefer that people post their graphics to a website (ask someone here at the Forge to help you, if you don't have one) and just put links in the posts.

Best,
Ron