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I considered putting this in the Selling Price thread, but I think it's enough of an aside to be worth its own thread.

I've been rather taken aback by the runaway success of the Great Ork Gods playtest, which has realised over 120 downloads in just two weeks, and it's turning out somewhat longer than I originally expected it to be. I was originally intending simply to release GoG as a free download, but this has got me to thinking: the Great Ork Gods .pdf is small (currently twelve pages, but I think the final version will be a fair bit longer probably twice that?) but is it too small to sell?

How long does a .pdf have to be before folks would consider paying for it? (Obviously it'd be a fairly small charge) Is a good game worth buying even if it only spans a couple of dozen pages?

Has anyone else had much experience of selling small .pdfs? (Paladin springs to mind here)

Quote from: Jack Aidley
How long does a .pdf have to be before folks would consider paying for it? (Obviously it'd be a fairly small charge) Is a good game worth buying even if it only spans a couple of dozen pages?

Isn't it selfevident that the content is the deciding factor? If it's good stuff, you'll want to sell it, as doing otherwise would diminish it's worth in the eyes of the public. We won't take you as seriously if you distribute it freely, as the assumption easily is that if it's free, it ain't no good.

As to the work being short, consider: if someone would hold it against you that you sell a short game, would that same critic be interested in playing the game anyway? Sure, you'll get some flack, but it'll come from the same people who count pages in the store to determine if they are "ripped off". Do you really care about that crowd, when they evidently don't care to consider the content over length?

To top it off, short games are frequently better than long ones for creative players. It's as simple as that, no need for GNS jargon. I consider Sorcerer a better publication than the Riddle of Steel simply on the grounds of the former being shorter and more succint. It's living in a lie to support the tendency and expectation towards big hardcovers.

So, I'd say that you should sell it if it's good stuff. The only limit is a practical one, as a short enough game (say, a page) is really hard to sell without revealing everything there is to it. Set the price by considering how much entertainment and use the game is to anyone. If it's a one-shot, a couple of dollars would probably suffice. If it's a long one-shot (say, three or four sessions), ask for a fiver. For a game with potential for multiple game ideas (most actual games out there), ask for ten. Finally, if there is content that raises the production costs, factor that in. If it's a real book, you'll want to get about ten dollars more. If there's mucho art, another ten. If you had freelancers working on it, another ten. If it's gigantic in size (talkin' about Hero System here), another ten.

Saying that a short game isn't worth paying for is the same as saying that Moses shouldn't have bothered to haul thoses stones with the commandments from the mount Shinai. They won't take one page, even with a large font, those commandments. Go see how many jews agree with that one...

I agree with Eero.  I say sell it.  To anyone that appreciates RPGs, a game's quality will overpower its size any day of the week.

When I started selling Kayfabe as a PDF, the sale version was actually smaller than the free version by nearly 20 pages.  I received no complaints about size (32 pages at the time).

The way I see it is that unless a game is very sim, there is no need for it to be huge.  I'm far more likely to play a game that has rules that I can read in a short time.  

Just my 2 cents.

,Matt

I also encourage you to sell.  For an example, look at Deep7.  They've been selling 1PG games as PDF downloads for four bucks a pop for years now, and they run about 10-15 pages.

Hi Jack,

As with so many things in post-millenial RPG publishing, there are no rules. So hey, if you try it, whatever happens is data for everyone else.

I suggest that Deep7's strategy has already paved the way for you very well, so you won't be trying out the shark-infested waters all by yourself. (Paved waters? What a lousy metaphor-mix.) Why not contact Tod and Samantha Downing for any advice, data, or pointers? They're good people and will almost certainly help you out.

Oh, and consider that you have one guaranteed sale of The Great Ork Gods (especially if it has fun pictures) already, which would be me.

Best,
Ron

Well! That's all startling unanimous then. Baring coming across a good reason why not, the final version will be sold for a small sum. I think I'll hold back on putting the artwork in until the final version, to give those who have already downloaded the playtest more of an incentive to buy.

Thanks all for your wisdom, and advice.

Hi, I haven't played Ork Gods yet but intend to, because I like what I've seen so far. As to size, I've been selling my own Lashings of Ginger Beer (28 pages) via RPGNow for a while. It has reviewed well, people have heard of it so they buy it (albeit very steadily). I did do a very small print run and that has sold out.
I know there are other small (in terms of page count, like Tooth & Claw from Momento Mori Theatrics) games available, so go for it!
I'll be up for a copy of your game, especially with extra pages and rule clarifications and so on.

Simon

To specifically relate this to Great Ork Gods:

I would gladly have paid $5 for the PDF as you delivered it. Once you get it fleshed a little more and add some art, I will gladly pay, say, $15 for it--pretty much regardless of page count.

My general feeling, whatever that's worth, is that once you are confident the game is "finished", you would be cheating yourself not to charge something for it.

I've paid $4.95 for a 2 page knitting pattern in pdf; $6 for 19 pages.  This is comparable to buying a print pattern.  I know that knitting patterns and rpg's aren't the same, the point I want to make is that I don't think it matters how many pages are in the pdf as long as it represents a usable item.  

Julie

Something I learned in from the art world a ways back is that you sell prints and originals at what you think your product is worth -- to YOU. Unapologetically.

In the art world, if you have two pieces of similar size, and you feel one represents a better quality of work, a greater amount of your invested time and feeling, then you sell it for more than the similar piece. That says to the buyer, "Wow, this guy must really think something about this piece as compared to that one! This one must be special!"

People naturally tend to believe something with a higher price is "better" than something with a lower price. "Cheap price" translates to "poor quality" in our societal subconscious, and we -- as buyers -- tend to act on that whether we realize it or not.

With RPGs, this translates to size and length comparisons, and it is the source of the "legthy hardcover ideal" gamers have regarding RPG books -- because lengthy hardcovers are expensive, ergo, they must be good.

But pricing is solely a function of economics -- it costs more money to produce a two-hundred page hardcover, and thus requires a higher price point to recoup the costs of printing and start profiting. It isn't a reflection on quality or worth at all.

With PDFs, you don't have those concerns, you can sell at a decent price, with the price of the product as your reflection upon its quality, since you don't have printing costs. That will come through to the customer. AND you get to give them a deal -- a quality game at a lower price point than your competitors (who are charging for their printing costs). With a PDF it is all "I think this game is worth THIS much."

So, Jack, this is what I say, and you can take it or leave it as you will, but I think GoG is worth more than "a small sum" (ie: "a couple bucks" ie: "I don't expect to make anything off this") -- especially a polished, finished version.