Started by Callan S., August 01, 2010, 03:03:14 AM
Quote from: Callan S. on August 04, 2010, 08:49:15 PMCoincidence on the parralel use of the words 'fiction first', it seems.On top of that odd coincidence - your specific example does not seem to be the fiction determining rules use ignoring the rules at all??
QuoteThe disinvited player example makes clear that we both believe the group comes first.
QuoteAs far as I can tell, the GM in this case has a desire to shift a group's dynamic entirely in his favor by playing another system, when the group wants something else. It's a more extreme version of the disruptive player situation above.
QuoteWell, this emphasis on "use of rules" is new, I think, and I have not had that perception that this was what Callan was arguing against before, and I'm frankly surprised to see Callan accept the idea that a public statement (narration) turns fiction into sufficiently concrete material that rules can be activated or affected by it.
QuoteThen when my turn came, I picked up that bit of fictional detail to justify a +2 to my next attack.I used the publicly articulated fiction to justify a bonus.
QuoteBut now I also don't know what it is that Callan is objecting to. I thought the ankheg face-barb example was precisely the sort of thing to which he was opposed.
QuoteIf the GM is creating this house rule for actual purposes of the logic in his head, then we can at least ascribe to him noble purposes.
Quote from: oculusverit on August 06, 2010, 08:55:05 PMSo Callan, how does this Rule "X" that says "You may ignore any rule that does not 'make sense', or at your whim" compare to the earlier mentioned "Rule Zero" which is found in nearly all mainstream games that states "If your particular gaming group finds that any of these rules don't work for them, you can ignore those rules for the purposes of the fun of your group"? Or are they the same rule?
Quote from: Callan S. on August 05, 2010, 07:54:38 PMHOW it's done is what I'm opposed to (on the principle of avoiding absurdity).
QuoteAnd I'm quite tired of this 'unspecified actual play account' from a number of people. Ask for something a bit more specific, like "were you ever in a game where the spoken fiction had you in a field and enemies far away" - that shouldn't be hard to do. This whole barked 'you put more effort in cause I judged you should...no, I'm not going to put in any effort, you do it all' is just a one sided talking at me affair (that even Ron participated in last time).
QuoteThe primary problem, it seems, is that we judge ourselves according to our intentions, and others according to their actions. So everybody literally sees everybody else falling short of what they would do, were they in that situation. And of course, research has shown that we are rarely so generous, upstanding, what have you in act as we are in intention.
QuoteBecause if your character in my game is a mile away tied to a stake buck-naked, then the fiction says you can't contribute dice even though the rule says you can, and you can't for what should be obvious reasons
QuoteYou can't control what actions your opponents choose to take, but you can require them to frame their actions firmly within the fiction. If they do so in a way that makes the action feel more appropriate and alleviates your concern, great, if not, Challenge the fiction until they come up with something the majority of the group can enjoy (or, if they can't, until they decide to do something else.)
QuoteThat point would be that by saying that there should never be a time when fiction comes before rules is essentially saying that rules are infallible on strength of the fact that they are rules.
Quote'Making Sense' is basically affirming structure of the narrative. Rules exist to give structure to a narrative. If a rule isn't affirming the structure of the narrative in a given instance, shouldn't a ruling that goes in line with said narrative supplant the rule?
QuoteI just fail to understand why "What makes sense" shouldn't be first priority.
Quotedespite the fact that the rules are there for the purpose of 'making sense.'