(SORCERER) A few questions about the Shapeshifter Demon Ability

Started by AXUM, September 27, 2011, 08:44:30 PM

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Stumped - please help!

Questions about the Shapeshifter Demon Ability (if these have already been answered, please point me in the right direction - thanks):

1-In the Abiliy's text, what does "taking the form of" entail?  Would the user take the critter's Stats (Stamina, et al) too, or just its' appearance (using the user's own Stats for rolls)?

2-If the form taken has certain abilities & the player wants to buy 'em, (like it lets it be done in the Ability's text) how does s/he go about this business? 
Take as a base (to buy the abilities) the Demon's Power,
create a critter from scratch with it's own "phantom" Power (just for this shapeshift),
or something else entirely?



This is how I do it - maybe Ron will be along to give the official reading.

Your demon's powers are each allocated to a specifc form.

So in the base form the demon might have Cover and Perception. In the Shapeshift form it might have Big and Armour.

In the base form it can't use Big or Armour. In the other form it can't use Cover or Perception.

Overall it has 5 powers, so calculate Power based on that.


There's a better answer from Ron here

So I was wrong, the demon can access all powers from each shape. Shapeshift grants Colour bonuses basically: which is of course a big deal in this game.


Hiyas Karl:

Thanks for the effort!  That thread you pointed at clarified nothing for me (lol).  Here's the specific example, maybe I can explain my situation better:

A player made a demon with the Shapeshifter ability.  The ability's user is the sorcerer, not the demon.

The setting (Dictionary of Mu), includes dragons.  The player wants the demon to shapeshift him to a dragon. 

Since the setting's dragons are "statted" already (they are demons, in fact), what should I do?

a-Give the user the dragon stats/template (including all scores & abilities)?

b-Tell him he looks like a dragon, but he has to buy the dragon's abilities based on his own demon's Power score & he has to use the sorcerer's stats when rolling dice (not the dragon's stats)?

Since the dragon is a pretty powerful critter in this specific setting, I don't want to enable munchkinism in my game by giving him carte blanche to play a combat monster/demon that has the very real possibility of wiping all opposition in seconds.  Unless the rules state so...(lol)


Da Ax

Per Fischer

Don't have my book handy, but also remember that even is the sorcerer is the user, the demon still switches the power on and off.

I think what Ron said in that thread was, that because you shapeshift into a dragon (and perhaps even with dragon-like senses etc) you ARE NOT a dragon. You look like one. If you don't have the Special Dmg: Fire Breath, fx, well then you don't breathe fire. If you don't have the Travel(Fly), then you don't fly fx.

At least, that's how I think it is.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Ron Edwards

It's (b).

If he wants any user of the Shapeshift ability to have the abilities of the dragon-demon as written in the text, then each and every ability must be provided on its own via the Lore of the demon he's getting it from, with a commensurate increase in Lore, hence in Will, and hence in Power.

To become a dragon, you must be sorcerer enough to master something more powerful than a dragon.

Best, Ron