Started by Moreno R., November 04, 2011, 05:00:32 AM
Quote- 1982: no hardback, no boxed sets, 9 adventures. This means that there was an average of 40 days between any new offer from TSR and they were thin booklets that sold for $6.95. And this is most successful D&D year in history, with million of copies sold of the corebooks.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on November 04, 2011, 12:52:52 PMI was not talking about the scholarly depths of the phenomenon, but about what brought it to others, especially publishers regarding their own games. A big part of that means getting the phenomena you've described evolving within D&D out of D&D. Because right in the middle of the 1980s, it became important to many of us to distance oneself from D&D of any kind. In fact, it was not even a within-gaming thing; people who liked role-playing but did not want to be associated with negative cultural judgments of it had to distance themselves. "You're into that D&D stuff?" "No. I do like role-playing. A lot of people don't know this, but there are a lot of games which are not D&D. Here, let me show you Champions." Or Call of Cthulhu, or some cyberpunk-heavy supplement for GURPS. And then you talked a lot about source material that would be interesting to that person, distancing yourself further and further from D&D with various details ("not like D&D, not like D&D") and hope that they would lose that look in their eye. Even going this far was the minority tactic, compared with the majority who simply closeted their gamerness. Why did we have to do this? First, not in fear of people who thought it was occult or vaguely "bad for kids," because those people could not be reached. I'm talking in terms of strict cultural coolness in the immediate, 20-year-old application of wanting to be given any social credit and/or to get laid. (Gaming could get a teenager laid by hot older women until about 1980. Not after that. Well, maybe since 2002.)
QuoteShadowrun met that need very well because it allowed you to do all that but without actually having to distance yourself from D&D in practice. It also, and mysteriously considering it had orcs and elves, branded itself with "cyberpunk" more effectively than, for instance, the game called Cyberpunk did. And lastly - synergistically - it did all these things squarely and successfully in the context of the new, high-end, multiple-supplement, sourcebook-heavy, shelf-space oriented, distributor-pleasing publishing demands. Therefore I agree that it did not invent anything I'm talking about. It refined and applied them in a way which made it the go-to model for all RPG publishers to imitate from that point on. Even games that did not begin with that model shifted to it, usually unsuccessfully.
QuoteIn other words, I'm thinking of the German scene, and directlyappealing to, possibly constructively challenging, its sensibilities. The German scene was exposed to D&D (mostly AD&D2), but its biggest influences were and are Der Schwarze Auge (best understood as AD&D2 in German, on steroids, with hemorrhoids) and Shadowrun.
QuoteThat's the year I bought one of my favorite modules, Against the Cult of the Reptile God (with Tim Truman art!). It's also the year I decided never to buy any D&D again. It's nice to see that even then, I knew when it had peaked. I didn't play it again until the 3.0/3.5 game I wrote about here at the Forge, a few years ago.
QuoteUh, I did play the module again, several times, using ... another game.