[Ingenero] OK, let me have it

[stefoid]

Hi. Im attaemtping to convey the essence of my game in as little pages as possible, as an intro in the text.  Ive got it down to 5 pages including pitch, diagrams and examples.

IT is here.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5W32IfgIIkrMTg1MTlkODAtZGU0Ny00NTIxLThkOTUtYjA0MzhiNzM2YmZm

Have I achieved my aim?

Does the game interest you?

5 pages...

[Josh Porter]

Yeah, that works for sure.

I am totally interested.  Can I play it, please?

I am curious to read more, specifically concerning the way the challenge phase implements.

[stefoid]

Please click my sig and check ut the downloads section

If you play it, please give me feedback!

[Illetizgerg]

After reading the five pages, the system seems to be a dice-less RPG up until the point where the players and the GM start to disagree, when it uses some dice to resolve things.There's obviously a lot more to it than this (pretty much all of which I like, by the way), but that appears to be the core mechanical concept. I would say something like this on the first page. You open with a couple questions, and introduce your game's key terms, but never do you say "It's a diceless RPG that eventually uses dice".

[stefoid]

Hi.  I think diceless probably is a scary off putting term for a lot of roleplayers.  Better if I set up the context for not using dice before I spring the big bad?

[Callan S.]

It's funny - I guess it's explanitory enough to make me see the structure clearly and...it raises a question. Perhaps an odd one now its late in development. Why the focus on meeting goals? I'd get it in a gamist structure, it'd be like "And I totally made up these cool plans and then I totally faced the wrath of random dice and prevailed! I hit the finish line!"

I think perhaps, much like many people go to university, learn how to do one thing, then go out and do something else entirely, perhaps the interest lies in where the goal of the journey starts to be discarded/become not as important anymore and something else is? Potentially passing on forfilling your goals, even after having fought so hard to achieve them, might be a thrilling moment of play? But that's probably a narish sort of direction, so depends if you wanna go that way.

[stefoid]

It's funny - I guess it's explanitory enough to make me see the structure clearly and...it raises a question. Perhaps an odd one now its late in development. Why the focus on meeting goals? I'd get it in a gamist structure, it'd be like "And I totally made up these cool plans and then I totally faced the wrath of random dice and prevailed! I hit the finish line!"

I think perhaps, much like many people go to university, learn how to do one thing, then go out and do something else entirely, perhaps the interest lies in where the goal of the journey starts to be discarded/become not as important anymore and something else is? Potentially passing on forfilling your goals, even after having fought so hard to achieve them, might be a thrilling moment of play? But that's probably a narish sort of direction, so depends if you wanna go that way.

Theres a whole bunch of answers to that on different levels.  Im not sure exactly what youre getting at though.  Can you clarify?

[JoyWriter]

First off, I wouldn't call this diceless; it seems as diceless as most games are, it's just you specify some of the bits outside of the dice. It's also striking that you go for a different stance to a lot of other games; instead of "roll the dice when the dm thinks it important" / "roll the dice when anyone thinks it important" / "roll the dice only during specific types of events" you seem to focus on insuring that people get to dramatically appropriate climaxes, and only rolling dice then.

Interesting choice, could be fun.

Any possibility of consequences resulting from conflicts? Or are they always considered to be fully successful, with the only consequences coming with the actions that follow it? I can see the argument for that, the classic post-boss-lull from computer games for example.

That's a good point actually, how does the game continue after completing a goal? And how do you insure that long term and short term goals line up?

[stefoid]

First off, I wouldn't call this diceless; it seems as diceless as most games are, it's just you specify some of the bits outside of the dice. It's also striking that you go for a different stance to a lot of other games; instead of "roll the dice when the dm thinks it important" / "roll the dice when anyone thinks it important" / "roll the dice only during specific types of events" you seem to focus on insuring that people get to dramatically appropriate climaxes, and only rolling dice then.

Interesting choice, could be fun.

Any possibility of consequences resulting from conflicts? Or are they always considered to be fully successful, with the only consequences coming with the actions that follow it? I can see the argument for that, the classic post-boss-lull from computer games for example.

That's a good point actually, how does the game continue after completing a goal? And how do you insure that long term and short term goals line up?

Oh sure, official conflict resolution is supposed to be just as full of choices and consequences as story phase stuff, just more granular.

You can set and discard short term goals as you need to, I guess they are like beats in a story.  Just keep moving forward.  Theres nothing that says short and term goals need to line up, although they generally do.  Im still trying to decide exactly how to encourage goals related to character motivations.  The current draft is too wishy washy in the regard.

There is a bit of an art to choosing appropriate goals - I cover that in the rules.  Its easy to choose goals that are vague or simply 'meh'.  Just because your character wants something doesnt mean its a good goal.

[thiagoess]

the idea seems very interesting, i would love to see an example of gameplay

[stefoid]

the idea seems very interesting, i would love to see an example of gameplay

Cheers, the best way to do that is to run a one session module from the website yourself, and report it in the actual play forum.

Currently there is one such module, but Im working on a second.

[stefoid]

Have updated the 5 page summary to reflect comments people have made, particularly 'wtf??' comments from rpg.net.

summaries: the more you put in them, they less likely they are to be read.    :(

[Kyle Van Pelt]

Great stuff. I read through the 5-page summary and immediately checked out the system proper. I'll give some detailed feedback as soon as I can, but I'm really impressed with what I've seen so far. I think the roadblock concept is solid, and the simplicity of the dice mechanic is appealing.

[stefoid]

It's funny - I guess it's explanitory enough to make me see the structure clearly and...it raises a question. Perhaps an odd one now its late in development. Why the focus on meeting goals? I'd get it in a gamist structure, it'd be like "And I totally made up these cool plans and then I totally faced the wrath of random dice and prevailed! I hit the finish line!"

I think perhaps, much like many people go to university, learn how to do one thing, then go out and do something else entirely, perhaps the interest lies in where the goal of the journey starts to be discarded/become not as important anymore and something else is? Potentially passing on forfilling your goals, even after having fought so hard to achieve them, might be a thrilling moment of play? But that's probably a narish sort of direction, so depends if you wanna go that way.

Hi Callan, Im just redrafting and reviewing, and I revisited this post.  I think I understand where your coming from and the answer is yes and yes.  I like the gamist thrill is important to me, the "I love it when a plan comes together" moments.  The game is for character-based action.  Evaluation of goals, where the goals come from, whether they are retained, modified or abandoned due to circumstances of play is the character-based part of the action. 

[stefoid]

Oh, and you know what, goal-driven play is also very much about pure functionality.  Encouraging and empowering (mechanically) the players to consider and run with what their character wants.

A character that is satisifed, content and essentially happy is boring ad passive.

A character that is needful and unhappy should be active and interesting as they set and pursue goals to rectify the situation.

So the preoccupation with goal choice and goal pursuit is kind of central to any interesting fiction and Ingenero attempts to mechanically emphasize that every step of the way.