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46709 Posts in 5588 Topics by 13297 Members Latest Member: - Shane786 Most online today: 26 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Working on an RPG For Kicks, But Would Love Feedback  (Read 3738 times)
[Y]
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Posts: 2


« on: May 30, 2012, 08:40:35 AM »

I recently started playing D&D, and after using it for a while and exploring the various odds and ends, I've arrived at the conclusion that there can be better. So I thought, "let me try and make a game. Got nothing better to do." I'm not very far into developing it, but I thought I'd come for any advice and feedback I can get. All the info I have so far is available in the attached document.

To concentrate discussion, I would primarily like to hear what people think about the class system. It was what got me thinking about the whole thing, and is essentially the basis of the whole project.

If you're still eager to talk, I'm down for any advice you might have about dice rolling mechanics.

Feel free to mention anything you feel worth of discussion in regards to the game.

Lastly, answer this: if you came across a game like this in a store, would you be interested in buying and trying it? (not asking for publishing thoughts, just trying to get an estimate of how much people would be interested in the game)

Thanks!

Brief Description:
-Open ended multiclass system.
-Intended for all genres of RPGs.
-More realistic melee combat.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yW6BmGhPVKn2wawcNwNzf80XwaeYnP7NV7gofzWX_jM/edit
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fodazd
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Posts: 12


« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 09:46:19 AM »

Greetings.

About the class system... Since you said you don't have much experience with roleplaying other than D&D and mentioned "flexibility" as one of your goals, let me ask you this question: Have you considered abandoning classes entirely and switching to some other method to define the character abilities, such as pointbuy? I personally don't like class-based systems very much, because I feel like they are a bit unflexible compared to pointbuy.

About your stamina mechanic: Actually, some other big systems had the same idea, particularly GURPS and the dark eye. The main problem here seems to be that it feels like it was artificially glued to an existing combat system and doesn't quite "fit in", resulting in it being ignored most of the time. You might want to think about some ways to avoid that effect.

About the dice rolling: There are two factors to consider here, and they are expected value and variance. When you are in a system where you roll against a target number, then a higher expected value is always better, but a higher variance is not always worse. For example, if you succeed at a result of 3 or higher, then your chances of success with 1d10+1 (90%) is better than your chance with 1d12 (83.33%). However, if you succeed at a result of 10 or higher, then your chances of success with 1d10+1 (20%) are worse than your chances of success with 1d12 (25%). If you (as a system designer) want to minimize variance, then you could just abandon die rolls altogether and say "Ok, you succeed automatically on any task with a target number of 6 or lower, and automatically fail on any task with a target number higher than that".



Lastly, answer this: if you came across a game like this in a store, would you be interested in buying and trying it? (not asking for publishing thoughts, just trying to get an estimate of how much people would be interested in the game)

Hmm... Not really, honestly. I feel like I have seen enough "D&D done better" systems by now. However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested if it was really significantly better. Your current version seems a little too early to judge that.
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My name: Nico
[Y]
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Posts: 2


« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2012, 11:07:02 AM »

About the class system... Since you said you don't have much experience with roleplaying other than D&D and mentioned "flexibility" as one of your goals, let me ask you this question: Have you considered abandoning classes entirely and switching to some other method to define the character abilities, such as pointbuy? I personally don't like class-based systems very much, because I feel like they are a bit unflexible compared to pointbuy.
I considered it, but I'm not much a fan of point-buy. Whereas point boy does grant ultimate flexibility, I feel as though it comes at the cost of wholesomeness. My own experience with point buy systems (largely virtual games) always left me feeling like my character lacked any real identity. While it surely was unique in a lot of ways, it largely felt as though it was simply an assortment of random stats and numbers. I do realize that his is a personal bias, but as I said earlier, at the moment I am designing this largely for entertainment, and I would not enjoy designing a point-buy based game. However, this is not the primary reason I stuck to a form of classes.

I should have elaborated on this aspect of my design in the introduction, and I apologize for not doing so. One reason I went with my design is because I would like to offer players different styles of playing the game. One thing I detest about 4th edition D&D is that all classes play alike. They may rely on different attributes, or have different flavors, but the actual gameplay remains the same. Wizard attacks have no variation from Fighter attacks, they are mechanically identical. Choice of class, while perhaps affecting your role in a group of adventurers, did not actually variate the way you played the game. In designing my game, I wanted to trump this flaw and find a way for every character to have its own playstyle, not just in terms of combat or social role, but also in terms of actual game play mechanics. Hence why I included two species of spellcasters, as well as why I included stamina: the different warrior classes use it differently, and depending on how you level your character, stamina might represent different things. And when you multiclass, the mechanical gameplay of your character becomes even more unique and interesting. Using this class system, the game does not only offer a huge variety of ways in which to imagine the gameplay, but also offers a huge variety of ways in which to actually play the game. I don't think there is a way that point buy can accomplish the same, or if it could, it would effectively have the same restrictions the class system does, albeit deceptively appearing more open ended. Overall, I think that keeping with the current class system is in the game's best interest. Of course, I am always to hear other people's opinions no the matter.

Quote
About your stamina mechanic: Actually, some other big systems had the same idea, particularly GURPS and the dark eye. The main problem here seems to be that it feels like it was artificially glued to an existing combat system and doesn't quite "fit in", resulting in it being ignored most of the time. You might want to think about some ways to avoid that effect.
I haven't played either GURPS or Dark Eye, so I will have to look into those. However, I have to disagree regarding it's arbitrary nature in my game. Again, this is due to me not explaining it with greater detail in the introduction, which I should have done. In fact, looking at what I wrote, I realize that I did portray it poorly. The different warrior classes, besides having skills that allow them to "spend" stamina, are also passively affected by it. The Ferocious Warrior's ability to deal damage depends on his stamina, the Finesse Warrior depends on it in order to maintain its attack bonuses, and the Formidable Warrior relies on it to reduce damage. I have not yet settled on how exactly these passive uses of Stamina are going to be implemented, which is probably why I decided to leave it out, but it definitely will not be ignored.

Quote
About the dice rolling: There are two factors to consider here, and they are expected value and variance. When you are in a system where you roll against a target number, then a higher expected value is always better, but a higher variance is not always worse. For example, if you succeed at a result of 3 or higher, then your chances of success with 1d10+1 (90%) is better than your chance with 1d12 (83.33%). However, if you succeed at a result of 10 or higher, then your chances of success with 1d10+1 (20%) are worse than your chances of success with 1d12 (25%). If you (as a system designer) want to minimize variance, then you could just abandon die rolls altogether and say "Ok, you succeed automatically on any task with a target number of 6 or lower, and automatically fail on any task with a target number higher than that".
Ahh! I completely failed to properly evaluate the variance, and I thank you for pointing out how the odds scale with the difficulty. Personally, I love variance, and I believe most players do--its why so many of us love table top RPGs and board games. With this correction in mind, I feel much more inclined to stick do the described system, but I am still hesitant due to the worry that it will stall the game. Players with less experience in statistics might take too long to figure out exactly what they want to proceed with their role. Describing the scaling of difficulty vs dice in the rules might help circumvent such issues.

Quote
Hmm... Not really, honestly. I feel like I have seen enough "D&D done better" systems by now. However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested if it was really significantly better. Your current version seems a little too early to judge that.
Well, your uncertainty is being interpreted optimistically.:) Personally I believe that if the game gets developed decently enough, the class structure will be enough to challenge other RPGs. Then again, I do have the habit of being optimistic to a juvenile degree sometimes.
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