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46709 Posts in 5588 Topics by 13297 Members Latest Member: - Shane786 Most online today: 36 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Amazing Series of Sorcerer Threads on SG  (Read 14203 times)
Judd
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Posts: 1675

Please call me Judd.


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« on: March 06, 2008, 09:04:15 PM »

Links below:


Conflict Subtleties
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5945&page=1#Item_15

Conflict & Inanimate Objects
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5952&page=1#Item_0

Social Conflict
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5950&page=1#Item_13

 [Practice: Sorcerer] Sorcery as Conflict
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5956&page=1#Item_1

 System & Narrative
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5955&page=1#Item_3






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Moreno R.
Member

Posts: 547


« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 09:32:38 PM »

I did put them in the order they were started (and they should be read in that order). I added the other two, for now.

[Practice: Sorcerer] An Introduction

[Practice: Sorcerer] Conflict Subtleties

[Practice: Sorcerer] Social Conflict

[Practice: Sorcerer] Conflict & Inanimate Objects

[Practice: Sorcerer] System & Narrative

[Practice: Sorcerer] Sorcery as Conflict

Jesse is still posting these, so there will be the need of a upgrade of this list in the future.
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Ciao,
Moreno.

(Excuse my errors, English is not my native language. I'm Italian.)
jburneko
Member

Posts: 1429


« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 09:44:42 PM »

Actually, I'm kind of done for now, so that's all of them.  I look back them all and can't help but wonder what came over me.  I was kind of... possessed.

I hope people find them useful.

Jesse
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Nev the Deranged
Member

Posts: 742

Dave. Yeah, that Dave.


« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 04:36:45 PM »

Actually, I'm kind of done for now, so that's all of them.  I look back them all and can't help but wonder what came over me.  I was kind of... possessed.

I hope people find them useful.

Jesse

The answer to that question is a deep and resounding "hells yeah".

Stellar work, Jesse; big ups to you.

D.
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Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 06:18:17 PM »

Sorcerer Unbound finally sees the light.

Jesse, I'll pay an artist to illustrate the whole text, if you want to beef it up a tad and publish it. Art direction is all yours, of course - this would be a donation.

Best, Ron
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Moreno R.
Member

Posts: 547


« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 09:56:12 PM »

Christopher Kubasik added another thread to the series:

[Sorcerer] Mechanics, Fiction and Social Creativity
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Ciao,
Moreno.

(Excuse my errors, English is not my native language. I'm Italian.)
Per Fischer
Member

Posts: 212


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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 02:37:05 AM »

It MUST be Christmas :)

The threads (and the following debate) are indeed very useful, Jesse. Thanks.

Per
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Per
--------
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Marshall Burns
Member

Posts: 573

American Wizard


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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 09:23:56 AM »

So, in Sorcerer you can, in theory, achieve anything provided you are willing to pay the price (i.e., if flirting won't get the girl home, and being more forceful won't do it, and being ominous and threatening won't do it, well, maybe pulling a gun will do it...), and this is built into the resolution mechanic?

Crap.  I ripped it off without even realizing it.
-Marshall
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jburneko
Member

Posts: 1429


« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2008, 10:12:19 AM »

So, in Sorcerer you can, in theory, achieve anything provided you are willing to pay the price (i.e., if flirting won't get the girl home, and being more forceful won't do it, and being ominous and threatening won't do it, well, maybe pulling a gun will do it...), and this is built into the resolution mechanic?

Yes, but an important point I was trying to make is that because there are no Stakes in the PtA or Dogs sense by the time your first few tactics fail (or Succeed but don't yield your agenda) the entire nature of the scene will have likely evolved such that "going home with you" is no longer even the point.

Jesse
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2008, 12:38:02 PM »

Hold on, guys, I want to follow up on the issue of intention/stakes here in some detail. I'm preparing a pretty dense post toward that end. That's not to shut things down, but it might be helpful to review [Sorcerer] Questions about stakes in the meantime.

Best, Ron
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Yokiboy
Member

Posts: 364


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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2008, 02:33:32 PM »

Sorcerer Unbound finally sees the light.

Jesse, I'll pay an artist to illustrate the whole text, if you want to beef it up a tad and publish it. Art direction is all yours, of course - this would be a donation.

I loved Jesse's threads, and would love a "Sorcerer Unbound" book. Please make it so?

TTFN,

Yoki
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jburneko
Member

Posts: 1429


« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »

Ron,

I reviewed the thread you linked to and the problem I'm having articulating to people who still don't "get it" is where #3 and #4 comes from.  They seem to be of the opinion that if system does not extend into at least #3 then all you have is GM fiat cleverly hidden behind some social maneuvering.

I know that's not the case because I've played the game so many times and *felt* the phenomenon at work.  But I can't describe it in words.

Jesse
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greyorm
Member

Posts: 2293

My name is Raven.


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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2008, 04:53:26 PM »

I know that's not the case because I've played the game so many times and *felt* the phenomenon at work.  But I can't describe it in words.

I admit I just don't understand Ron's post about Stakes or what he means, but despite that, I think I know what you mean. As such, could this help: come up with a way to describe what fiat ISN'T and maybe you'll be able to create a description of #3 at work?

For example: Fiat isn't any player at the table, including the GM, making a decision that affects the shared fiction. This seems to be the subconscious go-to definition of fiat for many folks: "Oh, but you wanted that to happen, so it's fiat."

No one would have spoken up unless they wanted something to happen, one way or another, good or bad, so everything stated is fiat, even things that are a negative for a given character. Obviously, then, that isn't a useful definition of fiat.
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2008, 04:58:04 PM »

Hi Jesse (and Raven),

One of my points in the thread is that #3 and #4 are not part of the resolution mechanics, so they must come from elsewhere - that is true. However, that is not the basis of your clash/dialogue with Josh. I'll post about that later. I have read all of the threads and really don't think the embedded wrangles need to be repeated or paraphrased here at all. Let's hold off on that for now.

Less immediately important but nevertheless not trivial: I noted that I'd failed to complete my sentence in the relevant paragraph in that thread. I say that it's OK to say "I cow him with my fierce gaze," as an acted-upon intention, or intention-in-motion, then the sentence and paragraph ends with "but there's no need to" ...

That typo is highly misleading - the sentence was intended to be finished with, "but there's no need to describe the target's reaction and subsequent events prior to the roll." The typo might lead the reader to think that the sentence "I cow him with my fierce gaze" is not necessary, but that would be wrong - that sentence (or, less specifically, perhaps, "I gaze fiercely at him" and grab my dice) is required.

Best, Ron
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jburneko
Member

Posts: 1429


« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2008, 10:52:15 AM »

I posted one more this morning.

The Bigger Design Picture
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=6008

Jesse
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