DiTV vs. Agon ?

[cra2]

In your expert opinion(s), which is 'easier' to setup & run?  Dogs in the Vineyard or Agon?

I have to run a session for 3-4 players in two weeks with plenty of other responsibilities between now & then.
So I don't have time to get halfway through one rulebook and then realize I bit off more than I can chew in so little time.

Between Dogs and Agon, which is going to be faster for me to absorb, prep, and explain to the players?

Thanks

[cra2]

After doing a little research and stumbling across this [http://www.tiltingatwindmills.net/ditv_resolution.pdf], I think I have my answer.
(holy crud, batman!  yikes.)

[Simon C]

I've not played Agon, so I can't speak to that. I can say though that the chart you linked to makes Dogs seem WAY more complicated than it really is.  Seriously, that diagram confuses me, and I have no issues with Dogs in play.

It's possible that it might be a little tricky to pick up from a book, but explaining it to other players is very straightforward.  Seriously, it's like "roll your dice.  On your go, put two dice forward and say what you're doing.  On their go, they'll put two dice forward.  Try to match that number with as few dice as possible.  Say what you're doing to stop them."  There are a few extra tricks, but that's the main of it. 

Dogs is also super fun to play.  I GMed a session last night for the first time, and it was a blast.

[Simon C]

Oh, as an aside, you might find you get a better response to this kind of question at http://www.story-games.com/forums

[cra2]

Oh, as an aside, you might find you get a better response to this kind of question at http://www.story-games.com/forums

thanks for the input.
glad to know I'm not the only one who runs in terror at the sight of that flowchart.

I'm curious - why do you say that other forum is better?  What's the difference?  I don't think I've been there.

[Simon C]

The Forge is a forum pretty much dedicated to the discussion of roleplaying theory (though Actual Play) and the design of new games.  Posts here are mostly focused on that.  In fact, your original post is possibly not really appropriate for this part of the forum.

Story Games is a much chattier, more informal space, and it's also got much more traffic.  It's kind of like rpg.net, but more focused on "indie" rpgs.  This thread over there would probably have half a dozen different people weighing in on the issue, some of them even with informed opinions.

[Noclue]

glad to know I'm not the only one who runs in terror at the sight of that flowchart.

Flowcharts make even simple processes look terrifying. Agon conflict resolution is more complex than Dogs. But Dogs may not be in line with your past RPG experience, while Agon has some similarities with popular games you may have played before (like D&D)

I too would suggest posting this question at Story-games.com.

[cra2]

glad to know I'm not the only one who runs in terror at the sight of that flowchart.

Flowcharts make even simple processes look terrifying. Agon conflict resolution is more complex than Dogs. But Dogs may not be in line with your past RPG experience, while Agon has some similarities with popular games you may have played before (like D&D)

I too would suggest posting this question at Story-games.com.

Last three games we've played were PTA, Mtn Witch, and Contenders, and we enjoyed all three.

But yeah - if these forums are primarily for game theory/design, then I'm in the wrong place.
Thanks for the re-direct.

Agon may be "more complex" on paper, but from the Actual Audio I've listened to, it seems to flow WAY more smoothly than the Dogs discussions I've seen/heard.  That may be in part due to how much "concrete" Agon's phases are compared to the subjective interpretive approach Dogs seems to have (which would naturally lead to more time spent clarifying what can/can't be done).

Plan on trying both eventually anyways, so it's sorta moot.  Just wanted to know which was quicker to put into play if you were in a pinch for time.

[Noclue]

I do think you should come back and post your actual play experiences with both games and the questions/comparisons they engender. That would fit the forum better.

[Ron Edwards]

The purposes for each forum are pretty clearly spelled out in the sticky threads starting each one. It'd be great to see one or more threads from you here in this forum regarding your play experiences.

This thread, however, has done its deed, and now it's time for it to go to bed for good. No more posting to it, please.

Best, Ron