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46709 Posts in 5588 Topics by 13297 Members Latest Member: - Shane786 Most online today: 31 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Dice and Rolling Them: Simple Questions  (Read 1348 times)
MacLeod
Member

Posts: 230


« on: April 10, 2011, 09:06:54 PM »

I'm just trying to get a basic mechanic implemented in this design so I can go ahead with all the fun ideas I have floating around my mind.

The following mechanic is for a game where the focus is on console-styled RPG tropes. Maybe that isn't too important right now...

Attack Skills have an Accuracy rating; Low, Medium, High.
Attackers roll 3D8 and pick a die based on the Accuracy rating of the Skill they chose to use.

IE: 3D8 is rolled and the results are 3, 5 and 7. Low Accuracy takes the 3, Medium takes the 5 and High takes the 7.

I'm thinking that base Defense will be 4... with advanced Defense Skills increasing that value in specific scenarios... such as, Magic Shield increasing Defense by 2 against Magic-based attacks.

Do you folks think such a die mechanic would work well, if at all? Will a Low Accuracy Skill always suck? Or suck so much that even awesome stuff won't balance it out? The point would be to balance the inaccuracy with something cool like high damage or advanced critical capacity.

I chose D8 because I want to use one die throughout the game... and D6 has too few results and D10 just feels... rigid? I don't know. @_@

The other idea I have is to have Accuracy designate a specific die; Low=D6, Medium=D8, High=D10 while keeping the static 4. I feel like a high Accuracy isn't nearly as awesome in this variant, what do you folks think?

Thank in advance.
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~*/\Matthew Miller/\*~
contracycle
Member

Posts: 2984


« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 10:26:47 PM »

That looks so whiff-tastic to me that I cannot see it working.  I think you'd have to be mad to select a power like that, and I'm sure that players will do everything they can to avoid having it.  I certainly would.  Frankly I think it might take quite a lot of luck to see that sort of thing hit even once in a session.

There are two possible ways to save it.  First, the power or skill or whatever would have to be free, not even costing an action to use, or whatever you have.  Otherwise no exaggerated effect, it seem to me, would be worth substituting this for something more likely to be effective.  The other alternative is that not hitting would have to be interesting or fun in some way such that missing isn't just the negation of an action.  Things like, the target gets knocked down or something.

I guess another way to do it would be to embed it in another mechanic.  If frex characters had stats like Aim and Dodge, then if Aim > Dodge, you use the High roll, if they are equal you use the Medium roll, and if Aim < Dodge you use the Low roll.  The range for these would have to be restricted though (otherwise Medium will almost never get used), and much of the action would be shifted to those stats, giving a strong Karma element to the mechanic.

It might still be useful for area effect attacks, or as the default level for skills you don't have any training/experience in.  But in the latter case you'd almost never see it used unless the characters are in dire straits or disarmed or something like that.

It's quite a colourful approach though, so it might be worth keeping if you can address the points above.
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MacLeod
Member

Posts: 230


« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 08:39:03 PM »

This is pretty much what I feared would be the response. I don't know what the probabilities are across the three Accuracies but in my mind there was doubt that Low would always miss or only hit 25% of the time. In truth, I wanted to tilt the game towards hitting... but maybe...

The other alternative is that not hitting would have to be interesting or fun in some way such that missing isn't just the negation of an action.  Things like, the target gets knocked down or something.
...This could very well be just the thing to make this wonky little idea work.

What if the "miss" result of Medium and (especially) Low Accuracy Skills were just variations on the "hit" result?

In the vein of what you mentioned... a heavy attack Skill deals lots of damage, has a high critical hit capacity and knocks the opponent around when it hits... but the miss produces knockback with a very small amount of damage.
With this idea... you would always gather a benefit from using Low Accuracy Skills (unless you don't want the miss effects, of course). That is cool.

Of course, there are other things that can balance the Skills against each other other than accuracy, damage, critical hit capacity and effects... such as time consumption, special resource costs, limitations, weaknesses, etc...

You know, thinking about this reminds me of the Deathblow Materia from Final Fantasy 7. The attack rarely hit but when it did the target died instantly. Maybe I'm heading in the right direction after all?
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~*/\Matthew Miller/\*~
MacLeod
Member

Posts: 230


« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 09:49:52 AM »

I was thinking that I could expand this idea a little bit. I'm all over the place... I need someone to tell me how it is. =P

Skills always hit...  but the catch is, the higher you roll, the better your result. Health and what-not is abstracted in the game so it makes sense... in the way that, if a massive attack missed you, you had to put a lot of effort perhaps into dodging which could put you at a disadvantage pretty easily.

The twist is that the ranges for each success level is dependent on the Skill itself.

High Accuracy Skills would get... 1, 2 = Level 1 Effect 3, 4, 5 = Level 2 Effect 6, 7, 8 = Level 3 Effect
Medium Accuracy Skills would get... 1, 2 = Level 1 Effect 3, 4, 5, 6 = Level 2 Effect 7, 8 = Level 3 Effect
Low Accuracy Skills would get... 1, 2, 3 = Level 1 Effect 4, 5, 6, 7 = Level 2 Effect 8 = Level 3 Effect

And instead of tossing 3D8 it would just be a single D8. Defense Skills would augment or negate specific effects and would be rolled against.
So what do you folks think?
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~*/\Matthew Miller/\*~
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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Posts: 17707


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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 11:50:54 AM »

Hi there,

Please check out the requirements for posting in this forum. They changed a few months ago. I ask that you provide some kind of external document describing the game or presenting at least some of the rules, to be used as a reference for the thread, and as a good faith indicator that you're really working on a game and aren't merely musing out loud.

Best, Ron
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MacLeod
Member

Posts: 230


« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 06:09:25 PM »

Hm, I am musing out loud... the thing is, I didn't want to get too deep into design without first having a conversation about the base mechanic. Problem is, I can't have a meaningful conversation with myself and it is hard to get noticed in most forums... and I don't have a circle of design buddies like some select folks do.

That said, I don't really have a document ready for public viewing... so you can lock this thread if you'd like.
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~*/\Matthew Miller/\*~
Chris_Chinn
Member

Posts: 280


« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 09:01:15 PM »

Hi Matthew,

You should check out Full Light, Full Steam, which has a similar system for general rolls- you always roll 4D6 and depending on your skill and stat, end up taking the lowest, 2nd lowest, 2nd highest,  or highest die.

As a fan of console games, I'd love for you to develop this idea more. 

If you put together a quick and dirty Google Docs form and linked it here, you'd be meeting the requirements for the forum and we could talk more about your idea.  If you're not certain your idea is worth the 5- 10 minutes it would take to do so, sadly, no one else here can really give it that much time either.

Chris
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 07:14:32 AM »

Hi,

The thread has to end here. No more posting, please.

Best, Ron
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